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Four St. Peter Freedom (WELS) Staff Take Victim's Husband To Court. Some Facts For Your Perusal and Rumination

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Glende and Ski have homes each worth almost four times
that of the person they are suing in court.
Who has paid Ski's mortgage since he was fired?
DP Engelbrecht promised St. Peter in Freedom that Ski would be back
in a few months, and he claims now that SP Schroeder agreed.

Joel Lillo

1 week ago  -  Shared publicly
 
I notice that the lawsuits in question are, in fact, restraining orders.  Maybe Mr. Donnan was overstepping appropriate bounds in pushing his case against them.
 · 
Reply

Bruce Church

1 week ago  -  Shared publicly
 
You forgot to contextualize the information--how Donnan spoke up at [the August 13th] meeting saying he was against giving Ski CRM status, and the Glende team wants to restrain him from speaking again. At least, that's what I heard.




***
GJ - It is worth noting the Jonathan Donnan has a modest house, while Glende and Ski have very expensive homes. I have never heard of four church pastors/staffers ganging up on one person at the same time, using the court system, but Glende has always been a known as a bully.

Ski's twitter page lists:

Candlelite Way & Oakbrook Ct, which Google Maps says is in
Darboy, WI 54915, to the west of Appleton. Streetview: http://goo.gl/maps/ScZ0r

I presume that's Ski's house, in a really nice neighborhood with $300,000+ dollar houses. So Ski might be living the high life like all the synodocats are. It reminds me of Fleischmann of Christian Life Resources (clearlycaring.com). Ski lives the high life in the burbs (or exburbs) while ministering to bums in Appleton. Fleischmann meanwhile tries to convince poor single women (who have most of the abortions in America and many are in inner cities) not to have an abortion while living in a $300,000+ house in an exurb of Milwaukee.

The exact address in the yearbook is N305 Candlelight Way, Appleton, WI, 54915-8731.

Zillow, which is based on comp sales, says:


Your search at N305 Candlelite Way, Appleton, WI:



---

Tim Glende's Home on Zillow:


Your search at 4535 N Watershed Way, Appleton, WI:


---


Timothy P Glende vs. Jonathan V Donnan

Outagamie County Case Number 2013CV000976

What is RSS?
Filing Date
Case Type
Case Status

Ascending Date Order
Descending Date Order
08-16-2013
Civil
Open
Class Code Description
Responsible Official
Harassment Restraining Order
Vander Maazen, Lisa Beth
Parties
Party Type
Party Name
Party Status
Petitioner
Glende, Timothy P
Respondent
Donnan, Jonathan V
Future Court Activity
Date
Time
Location
Description
Type 2
Court Official
08-30-2013
09:30 am
Family Court, Justice Center (920) 832-5057
Injunction hearing
Court
Vander Maazen, Lisa Beth
Party Details
Glende, Timothy P - Petitioner
 
Date of Birth
Sex
Race 1
08-1972
Address
Address Updated On

Donnan, Jonathan V - Respondent
 
Date of Birth
Sex
Race 1
09-1983
Male
Caucasian
Address 226 S Main St, Kimberly,  WI  54136
Address Updated On
226 S Main St, Kimberly,  WI  54136
08-19-2013

---

Dietzler, Rhonda Kay - Petitioner versus Donnan, Jonathan V


Filing Date
Case Type
Case Status

 Ascending Date Order
 Descending Date Order
08-16-2013
Civil
Open
Class Code Description
Responsible Official
Harassment Restraining Order
Vander Maazen, Lisa Beth
Parties
Party Type
Party Name
Party Status
Petitioner
Dietzler, Rhonda Kay
Respondent
Donnan, Jonathan V
Future Court Activity
Date
Time
Location
Description
Type 2
Court Official
08-30-2013
10:30 am
Family Court, Justice Center (920) 832-5057
Injunction hearing
Court
Vander Maazen, Lisa Beth
Party Details
Dietzler, Rhonda Kay - Petitioner
 
Date of Birth
Sex
Race 1
02-1961
Address
Address Updated On

Donnan, Jonathan V - Respondent
 
Date of Birth
Sex
Race 1
09-1983
Male
Caucasian
Address
Address Updated On
226 S Main St, Kimberly,  WI  54136
08-19-2013

---

Petitioner
Ulman, Leslye Marie versus Donnan, Jonathan V.
Respondent
Donnan, Jonathan V
Future Court Activity
Date
Time
Location
Description
Type 2
Court Official
08-30-2013
11:00 am
Family Court, Justice Center (920) 832-5057
Injunction hearing
Court
Vander Maazen, Lisa Beth
Party Details
Ulman, Leslye Marie - Petitioner
 
Date of Birth
Sex
Race 1
03-1971
Address
Address Updated On

Donnan, Jonathan V - Respondent
 
Date of Birth
Sex
Race 1
09-1983
Male
Caucasian
Address
Address Updated On
226 S Main St, Kimberly,  WI  54136
08-19-2013

---

Petitioner
Skorzewski, James Robert versus Donnan, Jonathan V.
Respondent
Donnan, Jonathan V
Future Court Activity
Date
Time
Location
Description
Type 2
Court Official
08-30-2013
11:30 am
Family Court, Justice Center (920) 832-5057
Injunction hearing
Court
Vander Maazen, Lisa Beth
Party Details
Skorzewski, James Robert - Petitioner
 
Date of Birth
Sex
Race 1
04-1972
Address
Address Updated On

Donnan, Jonathan V - Respondent
 
Date of Birth
Sex
Race 1
09-1983
Male
Caucasian
Address
Address Updated On
226 S Main St, Kimberly,  WI  54136
08-19-2013





Tomorrow Is St. Peter in Freedom's Big Chance To Bully Another Person into Silence. Why Not Just Another Secret Excommunication?Passivity of District Pastors and Members

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Friday, August 30th marks the day when four restraining orders in a row will be acted on - all from St. Peter (WELS) in Freedom, Wisconsin.

The previous pastor, Ron Ash, was chairman of Church and Change, the false doctrine lobby in WELS. Ski, who was booted for sexual harassment and drinking on the job, was on the board of Church and Change - until I published the list of board members.

The four restraining orders are against one man - the husband of the woman Ski targeted for his uncouth, boozy, and obscene comments - not to mention the famous Brett Favre nude photo he had her view as a prank.

Glende and Ski are bullies who need to have a dozen people on their side so they can silence one person. They arranged with DP Engelbrecht and the parish buddies to silence Rick Techlin for correctly identifying both pastors as lying plagiarists.

Write a letter? Meet with them? I know from many contacts that many people wrote and contacted Glende/Ski about their ministry of Groeschel copying and Stanley aping. All comments were brushed aside and emails were blocked, unanswered.

They cowardly staff of St. Peter in Freedom are afraid of the legal consequences of their failure to supervise Ski, a subordinate of Glende - so St. Peter, the Anything Goes District, and WELS are all liable for his behavior.

Here are some guidelines:

Harassment in the Work Place

Equal Rights Publication ERD-7334-PWEB

PDF versions of this publication. Follow this link to obtain the Free PDF Reader.
Note:
The links (bookmarks) in the Table of Contents take you to that section in this Publication.
The links in the Text take you to either a page in our website, a section in the Wisconsin Statutes or a section in the Wisconsin Administrative Code.
Table of contents
  • 1. What is the Legal Definition?
  • 2. When is conduct unwelcome?
  • 3. What forms does sexual harassment take?
  • 4. Important Facts about Harassment
  • 5. How can management respond to harassment concerns?
  • 6. Who is liable for harassment?
  • 7. What are the Consequences?
  • 8. When in doubt about Sexual Harassment!!
  • Questions about employment discrimination.

1. What is the Legal Definition?

Under the Fair Employment Law harassment in the workplace may be illegal under two circumstances. The first is when an employer, supervisor or co-worker singles a person out for harassment because of that person’s race, color, creed, ancestry, national origin, age (40 and up), disability, sex, arrest or conviction record, marital status, sexual orientation or military services. The second situation is when thecontent of the harassment itself relates directly to any of these protected characteristics (i.e. sexual harassment, use of derogatory ethnic or religious terms, age or disability related comments, etc.)
It is important to note that the Fair Employment Law only prohibits harassment in the circumstances described above. There is no general prohibition against harassment. An employer who harasses an employee because of a personal dislike, for example, or who harasses employees in general is not violating the Fair Employment Law, no matter how abusive or hostile the environment might be.
Harassment may include verbal abuse, epithets, sexually explicit or derogatory language, display of offensive cartoons or materials, mimicry, lewd or offensive gestures and telling of jokes offensive to the above protected class members. The behavior must be more than a few isolated incidents or casual comments. It involves a pattern of abusive and degrading conduct directed against a person because of his or her protected class that is sufficient to interfere with work or creates an offensive and hostile work environment.
“Sexual” harassment includes unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors and verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature when:
  • Engaging in such conduct is made an implicit or explicit term or condition of employment. Example: A newly hired machine operator is told sexual jokes, touching and display of nude posters are just part of factory life and she should try to ignore it.
  • Acceptance or rejection of such conduct is used as the basis for an employment decision affecting an employee. Example: A manager tells a worker applying for a promotion that the job would be his if he just “treated her right.”
  • The conduct interferes with an employee's work or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment. Example: One worker experiences repeated advances from another asking her for dates or “just to go out for drinks after work.” The worker says she isn’t interested, but the co-worker won’t take ‘no’ for an answer.

2. When is conduct unwelcome?

Conduct is unwelcome when an employee does not solicit or invite it and when the employee regards the conduct as undesirable or offensive. Since sexual attraction is a normal factor in employee interactions, the distinction between advances that are invited, uninvited-but-welcome, offensive-but-tolerated and flatly rejected may be difficult to discern. This distinction is important because conduct is unlawful when it is unwelcome.
It is important to note that harassment is in the eye of the beholder”. What might be acceptable to one worker might be offensive and unwelcome to another. The U.S. Supreme Court has adopted the “reasonable person” standard in determining if conduct is harassing.

3. What forms does sexual harassment take?

In practical terms, there are two forms of sexual harassment.
Quid Pro Quo (‘this for that’): When employment decisions or expectations (e.g. hiring, promotions, salary increases, shift or work assignments, and performance standards) are based on an employee's willingness to grant or deny sexual favors. Examples of quid pro quo harassment include:
  • Demanding sexual favors for a promotion or raise.
  • Disciplining or firing a subordinate who ends a romance.
  • Changing work standards after a subordinate refuses repeated requests for a date.
Hostile Environment: A work environment is “hostile” when unwelcome verbal, non-verbal or physical behavior focusing on sexuality is severe and pervasive enough to interfere with the victim’s work performance or be intimidating or offensive to a reasonable person.
Examples of behaviors that can create a hostile environment:
Verbal
  • Sexual jokes or insults
  • Comments about a person’s body or sex life
  • Sexually demeaning comments
Non-Verbal
  • Making gestures or staring
  • Display of sexually suggestive or degrading materials
  • Giving sexually suggestive “gifts”.
Physical
  • Touching, hugging, kissing or patting
  • Brushing against a person’s body
  • Blocking a person’s movement

4. Important Facts about Harassment

  • Sexual harassment often occurs when there is a disparity of power, not just when men and women women together.
  • A person who consents to a supervisor’s sexual advances might still be a victim of sexual harassment.
  • A member of one sex can sexually harass a member of the same sex even if there is no romantic motive for the harassment.
  • “Horseplay” can constitute sexual harassment if the actions are explicitly sexual in nature.
  • Offenders can be supervisors, co-workers, or non-employees such as vendors, customers, or suppliers.
  • The victim does not have to be directly involved. A third person can be offended by harassing behavior among willing participants.
  • Harassment does not have to be reported or complained about by the victim to be defined as harassment.
  • An employer can set stricter limits on harassment in the workplace (such as prohibiting all harassment) than may be specified under fair employment laws.
  • Unless severe, a single incident or a few isolated incidents of offensive behavior will not likely rise to the level of harassment.
  • A single incident of unwanted touching of a person’s intimate body areas is sufficiently offensive to be defined as sexual harassment.  It may also constitute a criminal offense under state “sexual assault” laws.
  • Abusive, hostile, or rude treatment of one sex (as opposed to mistreatment of all employees) may still constitute harassment, despite the absence of overt sexual behavior.

5. How can management respond to harassment concerns?

  • Implement a strong policy explicitly prohibiting harassment, including a description of disciplinary consequences that will be applied.
  • Provide training to educate employees on the issue of harassment and periodically remind them of your strong desire to maintain a harassment free workplace.
  • Have multiple avenues in place for making an internal complaint and regularly inform employees about the complaint process.   A “victim-friendly” complaint procedure encourages employees to come forward, is sensitive to their situation, stresses the need for confidentiality and ensures that retaliation will not occur, whatever the investigation outcome is.
  • Ensure that every complaint is taken seriously. It is essential that the employer act in a timely manner. Commence an investigation immediately and take appropriate corrective action as soon as possible.
  • Avoid making credibility judgments or reaching conclusions before you have gathered the facts, even if you think you “know” the parties involved and have an “idea” about what happened.
  • Keep in mind that there is a wide range of sensitivity toward harassing behavior. Remember, the “eye of the beholder” is what important, not is what you or other co-workers might find personally offensive. And be aware that it is not just young, “attractive” females who are sexually harassed.
  • Keep lines of communication open.  Make sure the complaining employee is informed of your efforts to correct any harassing behavior (including information about the consequences to the harasser) and of your desire to be promptly notified if problems persist or if retaliation occurs.
  • Realize that as a supervisor or owner you are “at risk” anytime you have an intimate relationship with a subordinate, even though you present relationship is not harassing and may not affect employment decisions. Policies that regulate social contact between supervisors and subordinates, including requirements that such contact be divulged by supervisors, are within an employer’s rights under the Fair Employment Law.

6. Who is liable for harassment?

How an employer addresses harassment with its employees is likely to be the single most critical issue in determining liability in legal actions.
An employer is responsible for its own acts and those of its agents regardless of whether the acts were authorized or even forbidden by the employer and regardless of whether the employer knew or should have known of those acts.
An employer is responsible for harassment between co-workers, if the employer or its agents knew or should have known of the conduct and failed to take immediate and appropriate corrective action.
An employer is responsible when non-employees such as customers or suppliers harass its employee's) during the workday, where the employer or its agents knew or should have known of the conduct and failed to take immediate and appropriate action.

7. What are the Consequences?

Lost Work Time:Harassment is very disruptive of production.
It can seriously affect victim/employee morale.
It may increase absenteeism and turnover.
Reputation:An owner’s or company’s community reputation may suffer.
Damages:A victim’s back pay; attorney fees and costs may be substantial.
Compensatory and punitive damages under federal law may dramatically increase dollar damages.
Other laws, such as state sexual assault statutes, may result in criminal charges.

8. When in doubt about Sexual Harassment!!

Often, an employee or supervisor may not be sure if a particular behavior or interaction is appropriate. The following “not sure” tests might be helpful.
Ask yourself:
  • Would you say or do it in front of your boss, grandparent or a stranger?
  • How would you feel if your family or close friends were subjected to the same words or behavior?
  • Would you say or do it to a colleague who is the same sex as you?
This is one of a series of fact sheets highlighting programs of the Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development. It is intended to provide only a general description, not a legal interpretation.
The Equal Rights Division has additional informational materials explaining various aspects of the fair employment law.
PAMPHLET SERIES
1. FAIR HIRING & AVOIDING LOADED INTERVIEW QUESTIONS.
2. HARASSMENT IN THE WORKPLACE.
3. PREGNANCY EMPLOYMENT & THE LAW.
4. PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES ON THE JOB.
5. FAIR EMPLOYMENT LAW & COMPLAINT PROCESS.
6. AGE DISCRIMINATION IN THE WORKPLACE.
7. SETTLEMENT.
8. RACE, COLOR, NATIONAL ORIGIN & ANCESTRY.
9. SEXUAL ORIENTATION PROTECTION.
The Department of Workforce Development is an equal opportunity service provider. If you need assistance to access services or need material in an alternate format, please contact us. Deaf, hearing or speech-impaired callers may reach us in Madison at (608) 264-8752 or in Milwaukee at (414) 227-4081.

Questions about employment discrimination should be directed to:

EQUAL RIGHTS DIVISION
201 E WASHINGTON AVE ROOM A300
PO BOX 8928
MADISON WI 53708
(608) 266-6860
TTY (608)264-8752
Or
819 N 6th St
Room 723
MILWAUKEE WI 53203
(414) 227-4384
TTY (414) 227-4081


Four from St. Peter in Freedom are suing the husband of Ski's victim, hauling him to court to silence him.

Ski will return to The CORE as the pastor, as DP Engelbrecht promised and SP Schroeder agreed.

Ski's Scrotum Sermon - Which They Were Proud To Post.

All St. Peter Freedom (which includes The CORE) posts labeled on Ichabod.

DP Engelbrecht's email supports Ski's CRM status, implying a return to The CORE.

August 13th meeting - this was held to get Ski's CRM status going.

Budget for St. Peter is $1.4 million, so why did they get a $500,000 plus grant to buy a bar?

Remove the 12 WELS Apostates - Starting with Deputy Doug Engelbrecht

DP Engelbrecht Approved Plagiarism of False Doctrine

All posts labeled The CORE

Ski - so bad, he was canned twice. This is the second, official canning, April of 2013.

Bishop Katie cannot spell either, not even on her own web page.

DP Engelbrecht had two different stories about Ski leaving.

Church and Change.

All posts labeled Church and Change.

All posts labeled Tim Glende.

All posts labeled Fox Valley WELS.

Intrepids on Time of Grace.

Glende, Ski, and Engelbrecht kicked out Rick Techlin - for being correct about plagiarism of  false doctrine, and Glende lied about his plagiarism.

Meeting with the DP's sock puppets.

More Hoo-Hah from Fox Valley WELS. This Blog Must Be on Target Again.

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Courtroom drama builds as St. Peter in Freedom gangs up on another member,
with the tacit approval of Schroeder and Engelbrecht.




Joel Lillo

4 hours ago  -  Shared publicly
So are you saying that it is impossible for someone to be gulty (sic) of harassing someone if they are poorer than the person they are harassing?  The pastors of St. Peters are (according to the documents you have shown) not suing them for money but are taking action to make sure that they can't harass the pastors and staff of St. Peters/the Core.

Boy, sometimes your logic just astounds me, Greggy -- and not in a good way!
 · 
Reply


Christian Sorenson

4 hours ago  -  Shared publicly
Greg,

Not only is your logic skewed, but you yourself are demeaning and harassing all the people that attend those Church's calling them and I Quote (sic) "while ministering to bums in Appleton"

SO how are you any better than the people you persecute on this website. How are your sins no less?

***

GJ - Fox Valley WELS Pastor Joel Lillo must have a barn full of straw men - some day they might even catch fire. He also mixed the straw man with the double question gambit, not only producing his own false accusation but making it a question that assumes a positive response.

Getting back to pastoral practice - why does every WELS pastor cry Eighth Commandment and Matthew 18 when asked about his public false doctrine, but Team Glende can pounce on a member with court orders?

law·suit
ˈlôˌso͞ot/
noun
  1. 1.
    a claim or dispute brought to a court of law for adjudication.
    "his lawyer filed a lawsuit against Los Angeles city"
    synonyms:legal action, suitcaseaction, legal proceedings, judicial proceedings,proceedingslitigationtrial, legal dispute, legal contest More

    sue [sjuː suː]
    vb suessuingsued
    1. (Law) to institute legal proceedings (against)
    2. to make suppliant requests of (someone for something)
    3. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) Archaic to pay court (to)
    [via Anglo-Norman from Old French sivre, from Latin sequī to follow]
    suer  n

Didn't they sit down with the victim's husband, hold his hand, and tell him sins in private? Didn't they follow the next steps in Matthew 18?

Not only is the pastoral malpractice at St. Peter a shame for all Lutherans, but it is also an embarrassment for all Christians. The time has come to an end when a WELS pastor can abuse members and get away with it.

I do not know who Christian Sorenson is - this may be a fake name and identity. It reminds me of the Glende rants, and I have no doubt that Glende attracts like-minded, hardened and blinded bullies. Christian cannot read with comprehension, a basic WELS failing. Bruce Church wrote a comment where he used the term "bums," but that is exactly what Ski bragged about. The CORE offered free meals as long as their pet bums came to church first and made them look compassionate.

Where is the compassion for their own members?

The Conference of Pussycats should hang their heads in shame for all the things they have allowed from the Jeske gang.

The members and pastors of the Anything Goes District have only themselves to blame. They have overlooked and excused all this for decades.

Page views rocket up when Ski, Glende, and Engelbrecht are in the headlines again. To quote Anonymouse (Tim Glende) - "It is like watching a train wreck in slow motion."




Orwell Is So Up To Date - These Quotes Fit Lutherdom Too

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http://inktank.fi/13-quotes-from-george-orwells-1984-that-resonate-more-than-ever/

One of the most influential dystopian novels ever written,1984 has had a profound effect on the world. Since its publication in 1949 many of its concepts have entered modern day parlance. Big Brotherdoublethink,thoughtcrimeNewspeak and Room 101 are all part of Orwell’s world. What’s more, as a result of the book,Orwellian is now a term to describes official deception, secret surveillance, and manipulation of the past by a totalitarian or authoritarian state. Orwell hoped that by writing 1984 he’d help stop such a state ever coming to pass. Read these thirteen quotes to decide for yourself.
“If you want to keep a secret, you must also hide it from yourself.”
“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.”
 “War is peace. Freedom is slavery.  Ignorance is strength.”
“Big Brother is Watching You.”
“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”
“Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
“The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better.”

“The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power.”
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”
“Orthodoxy means not thinking–not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
“For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then?”
“Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power”

000

 

An Example of Rationalism at Work in Lutherdom

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“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.” - George Orwell, Author of Animal Farm and 1984.

The Roman Catholic Church declares that it has always taught the Immaculate Conception of Mary (that she never committed an actual sin, being born without sin and conceived without sin). Their own scholarly books show this is nonsense, but how many read those instead of pious tracts?

Likewise, LCMS-ELCA-WELS-ELS claims that Universal Objective Justification has always been taught, as proven by this passage by St. Paul. The main difference between Rome and visible Lutherdom is that Lutheran clergy are allowed to marry.

Here is rationalism at work in UOJ. Their claim - Because Christ became sin (either at His death or resurrection - the jury is out) the entire world was made righteous at the blink of an eye. Their logic is peccable. They say, "If Christ is sin then we must be righteous. He became sin for the whole world, so the whole world must be righteous IN CHRIST." Be sure to shout "IN CHRIST" so the nonsense is obscured by the drama.

The context is ignored by UOJ stylists, the same ones who declare the Romans 4 chapter teaches the same UOJ, even though the entire point is that we, like Abraham, are justified by faith if we believe that Christ rose from the dead. Then they find UOJ all over Romans 5! after reading the leading verse about justification by faith. Dense? You said it.

The Corinthian letters are epistles for Christian believers, and the entire Bible, as Luther says, is a sermon about Jesus, presenting Him as our kindly, gracious, forgiving Savior. 

Faith is fragile and easily damaged. That is why God has given us two chapters especially about the Means of Grace. The UOJ gurus seldom if ever quote them - Isaiah 55 and Romans 10. Many passages in the Bible assure us of our forgiveness when we waver, when Satan or the synod assails us with our all our terrible deeds, such as questioning Mother Dearest Sect. 

Luther's Galatians Commentary has been wiped off the reading lists, because he who controls the past controls the future. If that book is gone, the UOJ essays by dimwits and fools can come to the forefront.

So the Apostle Paul moves the Corinthians to faithfulness in Christ by reminding them of the Gospel.




WELS Pastor Tim Glende's Lawsuit against Member - Denied!

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Wisconsin Circuit Court Access (WCCA)
Timothy P Glende vs. Jonathan V Donnan
Outagamie County Case Number 2013CV000976

The court did not issue an injunction against the respondent in this case. The reasons were stated on the record and may be explained in the final order. 

No adverse inference should be drawn against the respondent when an injunction is denied or a case dismissed. The fact that a petition was originally filed means nothing.

Monica Post - Augustine Lived with a Woman Who Fathered Him a Child. Same Old Lazy Editor/Copycat McCain

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Copying tomorrow's post via a mobile device,
McCain draws renewed laughter.


http://www.smithview.com/

The post even starts out - "We pray..." one of the oddities of McCain's hagiographies. I thought it was his affected writing, but no, it is the affected writing of someone else. The construction makes me think all of his sketches are from that same source.

The Monica graphic is from smithview.com.

The post is from smithview.com.

Someone else found this honker in McCain's copied post -

"Her ardent and continuing prayers for her son and her constant love and support for him saw him move from paganism, to heretical Christianity, while living outside marriage with a woman who fathered him a child, to eventual orthodox Christianity and service as a bishop. Here is The LCMS biographical note about her."

When a reader asked him about this strange construction, McCain allowed it was from a post he used. But in looking over the first part of the post, where this copy and paste was used, no credit is given. 

Same old plagiarist, copying without giving credit. He actually gave a clear citation in his Augustine post, but stayed in the hog-wallows with plagiarists Glende and Ski (his blogging pals) for Monica.

Nilhil obstat,
Pope Paul the Plagiarist.

Lutherans Are Not Lutheran: That's Why - But There Are Exceptions. Start with Justification by Faith, the Efficacy of the Word in the Means of Grace

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Why would a Lutheran want to leave Lutheranism?

This is a comment on a thread about Pastors leaving Lutheranism.  It was posted by Brother Boris, former Lutheran now Orthodox, who has made a comment worth our consideration.

Imagine a newly ordained pastor leaving the seminary only to be assigned to some podunk parish in say, the Florida-Georgia District, for example. Here they find they are the suddenly a pastor of a parish that only begrudgingly tolerates the most minimalistic interpretation of Lutheranism in liturgy and ceremony. 
  • The newly ordained pastor, so excited at his first call, discovered his parish celebrates the Eucharist only once a month. In fact, they really don't like it when he calls it the Eucharist, or even the Sacrament of the Altar like the Catechism says. They refer to it exclusively as "the Lord's Supper", just like the Baptists. 
  • Also like the local Baptist church down the street, this Lutheran church is predominately a bare lecture hall. Little color, white walls, no stained glass, certainly no crucifix and no statuary and no kneelers. Probably just a bland freestanding altar (built to look more like a Zwinglian table than a proper Lutheran altar), some type of modernist bare cross on the wall behind it, several ugly potted plants, lots of wall-to-wall carpeting to make the room as dead acoustically as possible, and an old Baldwin electronic organ (more of an appliance than a real musical instrument) that the church bought used from somewhere else to provide the music for the "traditional" service. 
  • There are hymnals in the pews, but they are never used anymore. Several overhead screens have been added so that people can sing along to the texts projected thereon. 
  • People in this parish are more committed to following the Hallmark calendar than the Liturgical Calendar. (In fact, if the truth be known, it would actually surprise many of them to know that the Church HAS an official calendar). 
  • The High Holy Days of this parish (and they really prefer the term "congregation" as "parish" sounds way too "catholic" to their ears) are: Mother's Day, Father's Day, the Fourth of July, Memorial Day. Veterans Day, the so-called "National Day of Prayer" etc. This parish insists that Advent is four-weeks-of-Christmas-before-Christmas and insists that the Sanctuary be decked out in full Christmas splendor on the First Sunday After Thanksgiving. "O Come All Ye Faithful" and "O Little Town of Bethlehem" are traditional favorites for the First Sunday in Advent. Of course, this parish does not have a Christmas Day service and doesn't understand why anyone would want such a thing. As the President of the Congregation here says, "Christmas Day is all about being with family. Why would you want to be in Church, of all places, on Christmas Day?"
 And my comment:

Brother Boris is not far off from the situation I found in my first parish.  I am shocked at the accuracy of his tongue-in-cheek attempt to describe what might be found in a typical Lutheran parish.  Let me make a couple of corrections.  There was a crucifix on the back wall of the nave and not behind the altar.  The organ was not a Baldwin but a Wurlitzer (complete with a percussion section).  The hymnals in the pews were a generic American hymnbook primarily made up of old time Gospel hymns.  There was no Christmas Day service or any Advent or Lenten services and Holy Week was limited to Good Friday.  No overhead screens but plenty of blank white walls on either side of the altar provided projection space for overhead or slide projector (the current technology in 32 years ago).

As far off as we might hope Brother Boris extreme situation might be, it probably can be found in a real place with an address and, at some time, a struggling young Pastor trying to make it there.  And he may be facing depression and disappointment in the face of the daunting effort to remake the parish into a Lutheran congregation.  That is what I faced.  I was lonely and disillusioned.  The congregation was not what I had expected nor what folks had told me to expect.  The parish was miles from the closest Lutheran congregation and Pastor (ELCA) and much further to anything that might remotely have resembled the congregation of the Augsburg Confession.  But I had some debt, I was without the prospect of other employment, I was without children, my wife had a skill, and I was just stubborn enough to decide to make it work.  Yet, I prayed for a call to establish a mission on the outskirts of hell instead of where I was at.  But the Lord's answer was no call.  I was there nearly 13 years and poured my soul into that parish.  I loved them into following me and, when they were stable and solid and it appeared that the Lord was calling me elsewhere, I found that their call list was riddled with people who ridiculed the weekly Eucharist I had worked so hard to establish and who worked against the rich program of church music I worked in partnership with a very fine organist (St. Olaf grad) to develop.  Sometimes a parish often must work against their own Pastor in order to keep Lutheranism alive.

Brother Boris is not far off and I know personally of that which I speak.  The readers of this blog need to be aware of the reality.  Sometimes the best that can be hoped for is a Lutheranism that looks like a mediocre and moderate mainline Protestant congregation.  And of course, there are those who will inside that you are making your complaints all about chanting or vestments or incense and not about the "real" important stuff.  But smells or bells or dressing up was never mentioned by Brother Boris nor by me.  What we ought to be preparing our Pastors for is how to lead a parish through a sea change of identity and back into the confession and confessional practice that we claim defines us.  That requires a stubborn nature, a patient heart, lots of love, and a long pastorate.  Not all of those heading out the Seminary door to their first call are up to it.  But the point is, they should not have to be up to it!

If you faced something similar, I would appreciate hearing about it and about your response and where things stand today...

47 comments:

mlorfeld said...
To top it off, often their ecclesiastical supervisor will work against them, and when the pastor tries teaching and the congregation resists and complains to the District, they will be advised to force him to resign over "conflicts of personality." Then other congregations in the circuit will bring up said congregation in a time of conflict and will say "We'll do you like they did Pastor _____." I wish I would be exaggerating, but I put a hefty blame on the COP.
BrotherBoris said...
Pastor Peters: I feel so honored to have a whole article devoted to my comments! I did not expect that.

I do want to make a couple things clear to your readers.

First of all, I am NOT encouraging Lutheran pastors to leave Lutheranism. In fact, I think that Lutheran clergy who have that "evangelical catholic" vision should remain within Lutheranism. Lutheranism needs their presence and their witness.

Secondly, I need to address the gap between LCMS seminaries and the parishes. I think that greatly contributes to why many LCMS clergy leave Lutheranism. What I am about to say may surprise some people.

I think the LCMS seminaries are excellent institutions with few equals. High academic standards, excellent libraries, beautiful chapels, fine pipe organs, dedicated professors, splendid liturgical worship of the highest order, and a vision of what Lutheranism could be are all present there. I think many LCMS men catch the evangelical catholic vision at the seminary. For many of them, it is where they are first exposed to it. They see it historically as they study the Lutheran Confessions. They hear it taught in class by their professors. And they see it come to life in the seminary chapel. And they realize, perhaps for the first time in their lives, that the Lutheran Church is not your garden variety Protestant Church. In fact, the more they study Lutheranism, the more they become convinced that the Lutheran Church is not a Protestant Church at all (at least not Protestant in the sense that most people think). I daresay they start to believe (as did the confessors of the Augustana) that the Lutheran Church departs in no doctrine of faith from the Church catholic or even the Church of Rome, insofar as the latter is known to us from its writers. In short, they come to believe the Lutheran Church is not some mere Protestant denomination interchangeable with Baptists, Methodists and Presbyterians, but the Latin Church itself, reformed and purged of its Roman errors. When they come to believe that, they cannot but help to have a high view of the Church and its worship, because its worship confesses what it believes.

Unfortunately, when they graduate from seminary and get their first parish, they discover Lutheran laity in their fullness. And there is a segment of Lutheran laity (thankfully, not all of them) who have defined themselves forever as "we-are-the-people-who-are-not-Roman-Catholic." Such people combine their anti-Catholic prejudice with that article in them Smalcald Articles that identifies the Pope as the "Antichrist". Then, even though the Lutheran Confessions do NOT teach this, a kind of folk Lutheranism is invented by the Lutheran laity that views all ceremonies and rituals that come from the historic church catholic as coming from the Antichrist himself. This is a kind of Lutheran version of Puritanism, and just as the Puritans sought to purge the Church of England from the "rags of popery", these Puritanized Lutherans desire to scrap every element in Lutheran Church life that came from the "Popish dunghill" as the Calvinist John Knox called it.

This divide in Lutheranism, between the evangelical catholic Lutherans and the Puritan Lutherans is being played out today in the LCMS.

I hope the evangelical catholic side prevails.

I could say more, but let these words suffice for now.
BrotherBoris said...
Oops! Change "them Smalcald Articles" to "the Smalcald Articles". My grammar really isn't that bad. LOL
Anonymous said...
Brother Boris has made a keen
observation concerning the LCMS
seminaries and the parish. In the
1960's the professors at St. Louis
saw themselves as preparing first
rate theologians rather than parish
pastors.

Fred Danker, Robert Bertram, Edgar
Krentz, Alfred von Rohr Sauer,
Norman Habel, Martin Scharlemann
had Ph.D's and they wanted the same
for their students and taught their
courses that way.
Anonymous said...
I think the LCMS seminaries are excellent institutions with few equals. High academic standards, excellent libraries, beautiful chapels, fine pipe organs, dedicated professors, splendid liturgical worship of the highest order, and a vision of what Lutheranism could be are all present there. I think many LCMS men catch the evangelical catholic vision at the seminary. For many of them, it is where they are first exposed to it. They see it historically as they study the Lutheran Confessions. They hear it taught in class by their professors. And they see it come to life in the seminary chapel. And they realize, perhaps for the first time in their lives, that the Lutheran Church is not your garden variety Protestant Church. In fact, the more they study Lutheranism, the more they become convinced that the Lutheran Church is not a Protestant Church at all


Sounds great. I wonder if and/or wish that the same could be said of the DCE's. These may be the weakest link in the church. A youngster goes from confirmation to youth group and there he learns, what? To appreciate splendid liturgical worship of the highest order, and a vision of what Lutheranism could be or pop Christianity? Bible studies based on the Book of Concord that teach repentance or Rob Bell videos that teach works righteousness? Do DCE's also believe and communicate to youngsters that the Lutheran Church is not your garden variety Protestant Church? Are DCE programs also convincing young DCE's that the Lutheran Church is not a Protestant Church at all? Do DCE's then transmit the vision to the youth?


This morning my son told me in his Sunday school the DCE was asking youth how the youth the worship service could be better. My son (who watches too much Rev. Fisk) said, "more hymns." However, I thought to myself, what an inappropriate question number one to ask of the youth and number two to ask without framing as to the general understanding of what good worship practice is anyway. Such a question is disrespectful to the youth because they are not charged with making such judgement calls. They are too ignorant and inexperienced. It is not their place and asking them such things places an unfair burden on their consciences. I feel very uneasy giving these DCE's the future of the church starting with young teens and continuing through college age. I wonder how many folks who barely tolerate the most minimal good teaching and practice were influenced by DCE's as youth.
Pastor Peters said...
BTW I gave the article its title and did not for a minute think that Brother Boris was encouraging a clergy flight from Lutheranism. In fact, just the opposite. He has pointed us to a continuing problem that creates a circumstance in which a new Pastor something looks for something else because of the great gulf between the Church whose confession and practice he learned in Seminary and the real Church found on the local level.

Nor would I suggest that this is entirely a Lutheran phenomenon. Certainly Roman and Orthodox Priests have lamented to me in similar terms that the actual practice of the Church does not live up to her theology. But since I am unabashedly Lutheran and this is an issue near and dear to my heart, I pass on this concern for Lutheran clergy in their first call...

Thank you, Brother Boris!
David Garner said...
Pastor Peters, we're having quite the little thread on Facebook about this post!

As a 10 year Lutheran layman turned Orthodox, I can only tell you that Brother Boris echoes some of our experience as well, though unlike him, I see it as more of a top-down problem in two senses. First, the one solid Lutheran Church we saw go downhill (and fast) was led in that direction by her Pastor, a Fort Wayne grad at that. That Church is defunct now. They ran off most of the Lutherans and no one else was much interested (Baptists do that style of worship better anyway). Second, there is no discipline from the Synod for Pastors who divert from the historic time-tested worship forms, and in fact there is none for those who abandon them entirely for Prot-style pop evangelical worship forms. This quickly devolves into false doctrine, as you know. In fact, as mlorfeld said, the District will in too many cases actively work against a Pastor trying to correct error and support a Pastor trying to introduce it.

For us, it wasn't even all that bad. The problem was we started in a parish that was rich with liturgy, catechesis, history and tradition, and left to join first the solid parish that was dragged into the sewer by her pastor, and then later a WELS parish that was conservative, but very very Protestant. Low church, pietist, etc. Not a bad parish at all, just not the fullness of what we had come to love. And even there, with only mild omissions, it reflected in the parish's doctrine.

I would agree with Brother Boris on this too -- far from encouraging others to leave Lutheranism, I would love nothing more than to see a renaissance of Lutheran catholicism (in the proper understanding). I would love to see the WELS, ELS and LCMS united under a confessional banner with more uniform liturgical practice and encouragement of the rich piety and traditions of the Church of the Augsburg Confession. I still have much love for that Confession and those who confess it. I am Orthodox now, and I have to say I am quite happy and would not leave it even if my prior parish with all its richness were brought to my doorstep. But Lutherans need good men like you and Pastors like you to make this come about. You have my prayers and my support as you fight that fight.
Anonymous said...
Pastor Peters:

Every so often I pull up your blog page and see what bits of wisdom you have to offer. Your article here struck me especially this Sunday. I am on the clergy roster of the Evangelical Lutheran Synod (ELS) serving a small congregation in St. Helens, Oregon. We purchased an old Methodist Church in 2004 that had most recently been used by a Church of Christ congregation. The building was very Methodist, all the way from the exterior which was almost square and flat roofed to the interior with low ceilings and no altar. I have jokingly said to the congregation I serve that we are still in the process of “Lutheranizing” the building. We removed the huge “baptistery.” We took down the screen in the Nave and put a crucifix in its place behind an altar borrowed from a sister congregation in Port Orchard, Washington. Our next challenge is to put in a communion rail but with the design of the interior, it will be difficult to get around the mechanical and heating ductwork which runs just below the Nave. We almost have to pull out the ductwork and redesign the interior. The walls were stark and bare. One of our members, a former Catholic, painted a number of the Stations of the Cross which now hang on each side of the sanctuary. On each side of the Crucifix is a painting done by the same individual. One is the picture of the Ascension of our Lord, the other a picture of the Resurrection. The baptismal font, a simple bowl on a stand, stands prominently next to the altar. Slowly, we are making progress, but as you say, as pastors we must be patient and teach and teach and teach.

However, I thought that I had done enough teaching on the Sacrament, that the people would be ready to go to a weekly Word and Sacrament service. I made this suggestion just this last Sunday to several at coffee hour. One of my organists, the daughter of a Missouri Synod pastor, lamented that by doing so, we would “turn off” the visitor. So I still have much patient teaching to do. My conscience was stirred recently when I read an older article by Dr. David Scaer in the 1997 Reformation issue of Logia. In the context of Article X of the Formula, Dr. Scaer make this comment, “Article X was not a response to a specific doctrinal aberration, as were the Formula’s other articles, but a confession that what the church does as church---how she conducts herself on Sunday---is as important as any formal confession she adopts.” At the conclusion of the following paragraph Dr. Scaer adds, “So today a Sunday liturgy without communion speaks volumes.”

After my organist lamented that weekly communion would be a “turn off” to visitors, I realized how deeply embedded old habits had established themselves. I also have decided to back off and continue to teach and encourage. Perhaps the next pastor will be able to lead the congregation to accept being a Lutheran Congregation unafraid to state its confession through the liturgy. This is not a slight against my beloved organist, but a realization that it takes time to undo the damage done already by the Prussian Union in the 1800’s and the early years of Lutheranism in this Country. I console myself with the fact that we went from once a month communion to twice a month communion.

Now, my daughter lives in Whitehouse, Tennessee and we plan to visit her this coming week. I am going to try to talk her in to making the hour long drive to Clarksville to visit the congregation under your care.

Pastor Joseph Burkhardt
Anonymous said...
I'm a son of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod who was raised in the 1950's and 60's on the 1941 Lutheran Hymnal, one-year lectionary, Wednesday chapel, and religion class first thing in the morning during grade school. I was confirmed in 1968 and by 1971 I was a Jesus Freak.

I eventually became the pastor of a charismatic church and worked in jail and prison ministry. With one child starting college, and another beginning high school, I accepted a position as the chaplain at a state prison for men and became the pastor of a congregational church that baptized infants and used the liturgy.

Quite a jump I know, but that's a story for another time. Well, I fell in love with the liturgy and the Lutheranism of my youth and eventually went running back to Missouri like a prodigal son.
I returned to the church I was raised in, with it's beautiful pipe organ and carved ivory altar from the 18th century, only to find an organ in disrepair because there was a praise band with guitars and drums up front; and an altar that was dwarfed by the big screen displaying the words of the current praise song.

I was shocked and maybe a little naive, expecting to again find the church I remembered as a youth. But, eventually I did find the historic, sacramental, confessing Lutheran Church I knew existed.
That was probably too many words to get to this point: pastors, don't be discouraged! There are laity who are waiting for someone just like you to show up. Someone who will teach them the Lutheran Confessions and how to faithfully live out their God given vocations, who will preach to them Law and Gospel and absolve them of their sins, who will baptize their infants, catechize their sons and daughters, feed them the life giving Body and Blood of their Savior, and, at the last, usher their dying and their dead from this world to the next. (and so much more I haven't yet mentioned)

Surely, I am not the only one.

Mark Reed
Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod layman and elder
Carl Vehse said...
"Imagine a newly ordained pastor leaving the seminary only to be assigned to some podunk parish"

First, since we seem to be talking about a LCMS pastor, he becomes a pastor when he accepts the call to that "podunk parish" and then, in his subsequent ordination, his call to that congregation is confirmed (of course, this may not be in line with Loeheist views).

Secondly, that pastor was given a divine call from God to that congregation, and the congregation should not be viewed as "some podunk parish" unless one is presuming to tell God how to run His divine business.

Thirdly, unless the young pastor was told as a seminarian he would only be called by God to perfect congregations, with laity educated in Lutheran doctrine and practice at the graduate seminary and high church level, and who have also provided worship facilities equivalent to or better than those at the Vatican, the pastor should be looking on anything less than a perfect congregation as an opportunity to demonstrate his leadership capabilities in rapidly whipping the people into orthodox Lutherans, and subsequently deserving of a prompt call to a more elegant church in a less podunk part of the Missouri Synod. Or perhaps he might fall on his knees in thanking God for giving him this congregation to whom he is to be their servant of the Word and their spiritual shepherd to the best of the ability God provides him.
Timothy C. Schenks said...
I would assume most seminarians came from parishes that support the Office of Holy Ministry and recieve quite a shock when they find out that most congregations don't. I've heard from pastors with 15+ years of experience say "if I had known it was going to be like this I wouldn't have become a pastor."
Benjamin Harju said...
After seeing this come across my Facebook feed so much I thought I'd give it a read. I think Pr. Peters and the thoughtful commentators here have described the situation quite well.

I have been in the Orthodox Church for a couple years now, but before that I was an LCMS pastor of a dual-parish for over four years. It was rural. They were not the picture of Lutheran idealism, but they received me and what I taught them from the Scriptures and Book of Concord as much as can be expected, and in some cases more so. I am proud of them.

What was most difficult was actually the other LCMS parishes in the district and across the country that we were by default in fellowship with. I could hardly find a parish to recommend to families that moved away, because the vast, vast majority of them had CW, open communion, weird quasi-pentacostal activities, and nothing that resembled the way of life I had learned at seminary and had emptied myself to pass on to Christ's flock. The majority of the pastors I met promoted these aberrations in one way or another (or all ways), and the minority banded together on the Internet and in local groups to work together to make a difference. It was especially bad at district gatherings. The 2007 Syndocial Convention was the horrific culmination of it all. I saw with my own eyes what I was in fellowship with, and what I had to promote to my people. It wasn't good.

I came to a conclusion, one that seems clearer to me now that I am out of the LCMS and am looking in on your comments from the outside: the LCMS holds together two different faiths. The seminaries have been amassing men with that evangelical-catholic mindset and sending them out to "catechize." But it's more than catechization. It's outright conversion from methabapticostalism (or worse) to reformed Catholicism (or Confessional Lutheranism or Evangelical Catholicism, whatever you like).

If I had not come to believe in what the Orthodox Church teaches and is, then in good conscience the only thing I could have done in the LCMS would have been to actively promote an organized departure from the LCMS of as many "Confessional Lutheran" parishes as possible. Form another church body, and have it maintain fellowship with the LCMS if you like, but stop trying to force the LCMS to be what it doesn't want to be. Demonstrate what Lutheranism is supposed to be by living it in peace, and let the "other side" do what it likes. Preach from unity of faith and life, instead of trying to convince methabapticostals that they don't want to be methabapticostals, or that they aren't such when everyone knows they are - especially them.

This isn't giving up. It's realizing the split is along that fundamental line of what the practice of the faith looks like parochially (liturgical or CW, pastoral or corporate, etc., etc.), and from there taking action to establish formally what you're trying to teach into existence across the LCMS. You should pursue peace and unity. (For a long time it's been distrust and disunity in this war in the LCMS.) Unity arises from this move, and this unity is a great witness. A measure of evangelism might be necessary toward the Lutherans left behind in the LCMS, but aren't you doing that already? Once you get your congregation on a good path, don't you try to find ways to expose other LCMS congregations to that goodness, hoping to make a difference?

As usual, I'm long-winded. I simply see in what you describe (now as an outsider) one set of beliefs trying to make inroads into a different belief-system's home turf. It's beyond what the LCMS used to believe or should believe, but now about what most parishes in the LCMS do not believe, that is, what they are unwilling to practice. (Isn't that the difference? One side "believes" the doctrine intellectually, but otherwise does whatever they want, but you guys want to live the faith and life that goes with the doctrine?)
John said...
Maybe, just maybe Brother Boris and others are called to a flock in order to do nothing more than to plant seeds.
Janis Williams said...
As a lay-woman, former Baptist, and very much a Confessional Lutheran now, this is exactly what I/we (former Baptists who realized they were Lutheran) don't want. We left "methabapticostalism" because we realized Confessions and Creeds are right and good. Not Holy Scripture, but an accurate representation of It.
(This in addition to a LOT of other 'stuff.')

What don't we want?
1. To lose good LCMS pastors (fresh from sem. or seasoned) so totally disgusted/depressed with pietist/charismatic/CW "Lutherans."
2. To find that we (who likely have been through h... to get to the Truth) must keep moving, because the LCMS is no different than from whence we came.
3. To be forced to give up what we have come to understand as Biblical Worship - where God serves us, rather than thinking we can do anything to serve Him.

Is there an 'exchange' going on? Are the fundagelicals realizing the emptiness and failure of abandoning the Gospel? Are the Lutherans jumping ship only to find the ship being refilled with former protestants?

Good thing this isn't Twitter; I'd never make it!
Terry Maher said...
Maybe it's the converts who will save things. Those from an "evangelical" background are well suited to reprove those pastors who go running after that sort of thing. Those like myself, from both pre and post Vatican II RC, also have a note of caution when all one finds as "traditional" is a Lutheran version of the same reworked 1960s worship of which other liturgical denominations have their versions too having dumped their traditional ones.

Either way -- either way -- one is trying to fit a Lutheran content into something that is not Lutheran, and that the one does so while retaining smells, bells, vestments, orders of service, etc makes it all the more insidious because it looks traditional while it is not. It is an imposter.
Anonymous said...
I am an LCMS pastor at my third parish. I was nearly asked to leave my first, but not finding enough votes, they could only reduce my salary (starve the man out). I was asked to leave my second parish.

I'm at a place now, though, that many fresh out of the seminary might classify as a perfect parish except in the area of compensation. However, I am gladly a worker-priest.

To comment on some things said here, I did get my first taste of Lutheranism at the seminary, but not in a surprising way. I knew it was out there; I had a rudimentary knowledge of what Lutheranism was supposed to be, but didn't get to taste it until at the seminary. That said, there was an obvious two-sidedness to what was being taught and practiced at the seminary. For students on "either side," we knew which professors to take and which to avoid, and, sadly, when to go to chapel and when not to.

As for the difficulties I faced in my first two parishes, I would say the root of it is the misunderstanding and misappropriation of the priesthood of all believers and how that finds its way into every doctrine and practice at any particular parish/congregation (for those two- or three-point parishes). As Carl Vehse points out, no seminarian is called to a parish with laity educated in (the finer points) of Lutheran doctrine and practice (for that matter, no seasoned pastor is, either). That doesn't stop them from crossing the line into the Office of the Holy Ministry and start making demands of the pastor, contrary to Lutheran doctrine and practice. In both of my previous parishes, I received demands and threats over who should be admitted to the altar for communion, and while the people making these demands and threats did not come right out and say it, every time their reasoning pointed to a belief that they personally garnered from their reading of Scripture and that since they were a part of the priesthood of all believers (and "everyone's a minister") they were right, and I was wrong (and, in fact, the historical practice of the LCMS was wrong). I could teach them from the Scriptures and Confessions until I was blue in the face, and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Perhaps, as Benjamin Harju said, it's time to leave the LCMS and be something different, even if it is independent Lutheran; I strongly considered as much after my second call blew up.

I stayed (and still remain) because I hope and pray that there will be some top-down reformation that Lutheran pastors (and I use the term here in opposition to those who only pretend to be) can rally behind and stand upon. We need more than just doctrinal statements, but practical statements which echo the doctrine; "we believe X, and we do Y because of it." Do I believe the current POS can effect such reformation? Perhaps; he is certainly a step in the right direction. Me? Give me a few more years to get my legs back under me; I'm learning again what it means to be a parish pastor and do that work (and I thank God that I am now at a place that is gracious to me in my mistakes and encouraging to me in my learning--it's refreshing to hear, "Pastor, you have been trained for this...").
Anonymous said...
"... They refer to it exclusively as "the Lord's Supper", just like the Baptists."
So, what? It's the term used in the Bible (not to mention that the term, Sacrament of the ALTAR is theologically incorrect since that table upfront is not an altar, nothing is being sacrificed there, unless you are a Roman Catholic and believe that Jesus is being sacrificed there again and again...)
"Also like the local Baptist church down the street, this Lutheran church is predominately a bare lecture hall. Little color, white walls, no stained glass, certainly no crucifix and no statuary and no kneelers."
Sounds pretty much like the early Christian worship service too me; the first church building was erected in 4th century if I am not mistaken, right? Art is beautiful but not necessary...

"There are hymnals in the pews, but they are never used anymore. Several overhead screens have been added so that people can sing along to the texts projected thereon."
Uhh, terrible!!! Actually, so what?! What happened to the Lutheran doctrine of the Christian freedom? What about adiafora?

"The High Holy Days of this parish (and they really prefer the term "congregation" as "parish" sounds way too "catholic" to their ears) are: Mother's Day, Father's Day, the Fourth of July, Memorial Day. Veterans Day, the so-called "National Day of Prayer" etc."

There are, actually, no holy days in the New Testament. Read apostle Paul, read the Augsburg Confession. You may want to remeber some Biblical events and persons on some designated days, but then you may choose not to. Period.
I am an Evangelical who has become a Lutheran, but I think that people like these totally miss the essence of Lutheranism; they want to get as far as they can from Evangelicalism in outward forms, not realizing that they are just falling into the opposite "slavery to forms"...
christl242 said...
unless you are a Roman Catholic and believe that Jesus is being sacrificed there again and again...)

Gott hilf mir. When Rome is genuinely in error, let's call her on it. But this is one canard we just have to let go.

I am continually shocked at how even Lutheran pastors repeat this misunderstanding. My pastor argued with me up and down during one Bible class that Christ is re-sacrificed at every mass and that when Lutheran/Anglican clergy become Catholic priests if they are married they must remain celibate. He became quite agitated when I flatly told him he was wrong on both counts.

The Sacrifice of Calvary made present at every mass is the one, singular, unrepeatable Sacrifice re-presented sacramentally at the mass. Christ does not die over and over.

Christine
Anonymous said...
"The Sacrifice of Calvary made present at every mass is the one, singular, unrepeatable Sacrifice re-presented sacramentally at the mass. Christ does not die over and over."

And you really think that Luther would agree with you? And you really think that Luther too "may have been wrong on this" because he was uninformed of the Roman Catholic teaching? Every R.C. priest takes bread and wine and sacrifices them to God in the Mass, day by day; of course, Roman Catholic theologians would not say that Christ is being re-sacrificed daily, because that would go flatly against the Bible, yet, that is exactly what they are doing - the one and only sacrifice of Christ is not merely made present in the Mass, rather Christ is, according to their actions, being sacrificed again and again. You have to understand that one should not believe everything the Roman Catholic church says, because they say many contradictory things. Take for example, their beliefs and practices concerning Mary, it's a sheer idolatry, she's a Co-Redemptrix, Co-Mediator, etc.; yet, their apologists would flatly deny all that or would give it such a spin that it would seem that their beliefs about Mary are completely biblical and evangelical... So, don't believe everything you've been told by the Roman Catholics...
christl242 said...
Luther also said he would rather drink the Blood of Christ with the pope than wine with Zwingli. That is one thing we do have in common with Rome as against those Christians who only consider the elements as symbols.

The fact that the Catholic church offers mass daily does not "multiply" the sacrifice that is made present and offered, it is still the one, same, singular sacrifice made present in time and space. What Luther objected was that the mass was being offered as a propitiary sacrifice on behalf of the living and the dead.

As far as Mary is concerned, popular piety and official Catholic teachings are sometime in opposition to one another. No private opinion of any lay Catholic takes precedent over the teaching magisterium of the Catholic church.

Yes, Mary is called an "intercessor" and some would like to have Rome declare her "co-mediatrix" but Rome has refused to do so, clearly stating that Christ alone is the mediator between humanity and God but that Mary and the Saints are intercessors who pray for us (which Lutherans do not teach).

Not to worry, I don't believe everything that Rome says -- I kind of found out for myself what Rome believes while I was Catholic :)
christl242 said...
but that Mary and the Saints are intercessors who pray for us (which Lutherans do not teach)

Ooops, that would more accurately be that Christians should INVOKE Mary and the Saints. That they do pray for the Church I have no doubt.
Anonymous said...
"The fact that the Catholic church offers mass daily does not "multiply" the sacrifice that is made present and offered, it is still the one, same, singular sacrifice made present in time and space. What Luther objected was that the mass was being offered as a propitiary sacrifice on behalf of the living and the dead."

This is exactly a type of thing I'm talking about when I criticize the Roman Catholic theology. They, RC theologians speak with both sides of their mouth: yes, it's one and the same sacrifice, no, Christ is not being re-sacrificed, yes, Christ un-bloody sacrifice is being offered daily on the RC altars, yes, no, no, yes... You say it well, "the sacrifice that is made present and OFFERED, it is still the one", and, "What Luther objected was that the mass was being offered as a propitiary sacrifice"... Well, if it is being offered, and it's Christ's one and only sacrifice, then how can it be not be propitiatory? Enough said. Let's move to something else, there's no point in defending RCism if you are not even a RC.

And when I mentioned Mary I wasn't talking about the contradiction between the POPULAR MARIAN PIETY and the official RC dogma, rather the contradiction in their own doctrinal statements.
BrotherBoris said...
Anonymous: Get a grip! The Lutherans also believe that Christ's sacrifice on Calvary is made present again in the Eucharist and offered to the faithful to partake. As one of my Lutheran professors at Bethany Lutheran College used to say, "On the cross salvation was accomplished. In the Sacrament of the Altar, salvation is distributed."
Anonymous said...
"The Lutherans also believe that Christ's sacrifice on Calvary is made present again in the Eucharist and offered to the faithful to partake." Exactly. Being present. But there is no priest to turn bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ and then sacrifice that body and blood to God the Father.
Anonymous said...
THE LORD’S SUPPER
THE FEAST OF SALVATION
by Gaylin R. Schmeling

....

E. The Supper and Sacrifice

The atonement sacrifice for all sin was finished and completed at the cross when the Savior cried out, “It is finished” (John 19:30; see also 1 Peter 3:18, Hebrews 7:26-27, 9:12). Since the sacrifice of Christ is complete, the Roman Catholic Church perverts the priestly office of Christ when it speaks of each repetition of the Lord’s Supper as an unbloody sacrifice—the same sacrifice as the sacrifice of the cross, only in an unbloody manner: “The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice… ‘In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner’” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, para. 1367).
To say that the Supper is the same sacrifice as the sacrifice of the cross, namely, that in the sacrament Christ’s body and blood are again offered up to appease God’s just anger over sin, impairs the oneness of the once and for all sacrifice on the cross (Hebrews 7:26- 27, 9:12). The sacrifice of the cross cannot be all-sufficient, offered once, and still need to be continually offered in the Mass. The only way that the sacrament may be spoken of as a sacrifice is that the very body and blood which were once offered for the redemption of all, are now present in the Supper conveying the blessings of that redemption to the individual. Chemnitz writes in his Examen:
The fathers call the body and blood of the Lord which are present in the Supper a saving sacrifice, a pure host, our ransom, the purchase price of our redemption, the ransom for the sins of the world, a propitiatory sacrifice and a propitiation, not because the body and blood of Christ are offered in the Mass by the action of the priest in order that they may become the ransom and propitiation for the sins of the whole world, but because that sacrifice which was once offered on the cross for our redemption and for the sins of the whole world—the body and blood of the Lord—is present, is dispensed, offered, and taken in the Lord’s Supper, so that the power and efficacy of this offering, once made on the cross, is applied and sealed individually to all who receive it in faith. Thus Cyprian says of the Lord’s Supper: “This life-giving bread and the cup of blessing, hallowed by the solemn benediction, benefits the life of the total man, being at the same time a medicine and an offering, to heal our infirmities and to purge our iniquities.” (Chemnitz, Ex. 2, 491)
The Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions are extremely emphatic in their rejection of any form of propitiatory sacrifice in the Supper which militates against the once and for all sacrifice of the cross or makes the sacrament a human work or sacrifice.

...

(an essay found on the Internet)

So, there is a great difference between Christ's sacrifice being present in the Lord's Supper and offered TO US to participate and Christ's sacrifice being present in the Lord's Supper and offered TO GOD to atone for our sins.
christl242 said...
Anonymous, take a deep breath. Here's how the Catechism of the Catholic Church puts it:

1323 "At the Last Supper, on the night he was betrayed, our Savior instituted the Eucharistic sacrifice of his Body and Blood. This he did in order to perpetuate the sacrifice of the cross throughout the ages until he should come again, and so to entrust to his beloved Spouse, the Church, a memorial of his death and resurrection: a sacrament of love, a sign of unity, a bond of charity, a Paschal banquet 'in which Christ is consumed, the mind is filled with grace, and a pledge of future glory is given to us.'"

and

1545 The redemptive sacrifice of Christ is unique, accomplished once for all; yet it is made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice of the Church. The same is true of the one priesthood of Christ; it is made present through the ministerial priesthood without diminishing the uniqueness of Christ's priesthood: "Only Christ is the true priest, the others being only his ministers."

I am merely presenting the Eucharist according to how the Church of Rome understands it. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant, this IS the Roman position and it is just plain wrong for non-Catholics to claim that in the Roman mass Christ is continually re-sacrificed when he is not.


Christine
christl242 said...
There is also a further dimension in that at the offertory, the Christian is to offer himself/herself to be transformed along with the bread and wine, i.e., to become what he/she has received, the Body of Christ in the world, a living sacrifice to the glory of God.

Christine
Anonymous said...
Well, nothing new, that's exactly what I was talking about. It's like, I take an elephant but call it a rabbit, and if you say, But wait a minute, that's an elephant, guess what, I reply, No, it's an elephant, at least that's how I see it and understand it, and whether you agree or disagree with it is totally irrelevant, MY TEACHING IS, IT'S A RABBIT, NOT AN ELEPHANT! That's the essence of the issue. Many cults do the same. For example, SDAs say, We believe in Sola Scriptura, we do not add Ellen G. White's writings to the Bible. And they do not - physically, but for all other purposeses, EGW's writings are inspired by the Holy Spirit, the same way the Biblical writings are, trustworthy, authoritative, etc. That's why you can hear any SDA preacher saying during the sermon, The Bible says so and so, and, The Spirit of Prophecy says so and so... (the Spirit of Prophecy is the Holy Spirit speaking through EGW). So, in the end, what's the difference, do they believe in Sola Scriptura? They think they do, they say they do - but actually they don't. Just an example.
mlorfeld said...
Christine,
Though current Catholic Apologists distance themselves from or even reject the term "re-sacrifice", according to the CCC and Baltimore Catechism, the Eucharist is Christ offering Himself to the Father through the priest in an unbloody manner. In this regard it is nothing other than a re-sacrifice, however, as Roman dogmatitions are abundantly aware of Hebrews 10:10-14, and thus conclude that this sacrifice is the re-presentation of Christ's one Sacrifice on the Cross. It still remains, however, that the locus of action is that of the Priest (and since Vatican II, the people). So whether it is a "re-sacrifice" or "re-presentation" of Christ's sacrifice... it's still wrong.

To this Lutherans in the confessions reject outright the notion of the Lord's Supper as Sacrifice as the focus is placed on the Lord giving His Body and Blood (The Apology of the Augsburg Confession discusses this matter at length: http://bookofconcord.org/defense_23_mass.php#para14). In the Lord's Supper we receive Christ as He is now: crucified AND risen. Thus what we receive is precisely what He gives: His Holiness (the forgiveness of sins) and His Resurrection.
christl242 said...
Once again, I am presenting the position of the Church of Rome as she understands it. Catholic teaching is clear that it is not a "new" or "repeated" sacrifice but the one, same sacrifice through which every generation is present at Calvary. I have never, ever heard the mass referred to as a "re-sacrificing" of Christ in the liturgy.

Catholic theology also teaches that Holy Communion imparts the forgiveness of sins and that the Eucharist is holy food that prepares the Christian for the fullness of life in the Kingdom of God. Nor do Catholics receive a "dead" Christ in the Eucharist, but the glorious, risen Christ.

Hey, I didn't write the Catechism of the Catholic Church, but that's what it says. Would Lutherans like it if their teaching were misrepresented? I believe I have also made clear in prior comments that this is one area in which Rome and Wittenberg are probably never going to agree.

Christine
Anonymous said...
"I reply, No, it's an ELEPHANT, at least that's how I see it and understand it, and whether you agree or disagree with it is totally irrelevant, MY TEACHING IS, IT'S A RABBIT, NOT AN ELEPHANT!"

I think I got confused a bit here. Oh, the intricacies of the Roman Catholic theology!

(But let me tell you, BTW, what I do like about the RCism - theire contemplative tradition!)
christl242 said...
Well, Anonymous, if the veil between heaven and earth can be set aside during the mass/Divine Service -- why would it be so hard for God to literally reach back in time and make present what "was" in the "here and now" -- God lives outside of time.

Yes, Roman Catholic theology can be very confusing for non-Catholics.
Dixie said...
Once again, I am presenting the position of the Church of Rome as she understands it.

It is very important when discussing with someone of another faith that one doesn't misrepresent that faith. I, for one, appreciate Christine's insistence here. If Lutherans don't present the Catholic's position honestly then what Catholic is going to seriously be interested in listening or reading any points be made. It comes down to credibility. It is difficult to get others to listen (or read) one's point of view if in the presentation there is hyperbole or misrepresentation or out and out falsehoods.

On this point of there being no "re-sacrifice" Christine is correct. (Ya...I was one of those well catechized pre-VII, Catholic grade school taught by nuns, welts-on-the-hands-to-prove-it kids.) And her point about time is also imperative to understand the Catholic position. We Orthodox sing every Sunday "Today has salvation come into the world..." because the Divine Liturgy is outside of time. I think the Lutherans believe the same thing, right?
christl242 said...
(Ya...I was one of those well catechized pre-VII, Catholic grade school taught by nuns, welts-on-the-hands-to-prove-it kids.)

Dixie, ouch!! :)

My husband used to get continual "time-outs" from the Sisters who taught him because he used to sneak up behind them and pat their habits with the chalk eraser.

Christine
Terry Maher said...
For God's sake, Rome teaches enough error without ascribing to them error they do not teach.

And the result is, when trying to present the faith of Christ, revealed in Scripture and accurately stated in the Book of Concord, one will be immediately dismissed from consideration since one clearly misunderstands what one is countering.

In this case, countering the Roman idea of the mass as a sacrifice will get nowhere if presented in the context of a thorough misunderstanding of how Rome teaches it is a sacrifice.

With a double irony. The progression, You say A, which is actually saying B, and B is wrong, therefore so is A, is a favourite controversial device of Roman apologists.

Rome has never, ever taught a re-sacrifice of Christ on the altar (B above), any more than it teaches its priests are another Christ with the term alter Christus.

And the second irony is, the error Rome does teach is actually wronger, so to speak, than the misunderstandings often heard here.
Anonymous said...
"Yes, Roman Catholic theology can be very confusing for non-Catholics."

Well, that was a joke on my part. Actually, I think that RC theology is more confusing for the Catholics then for non-Catholics; we see that its wrong and dismiss it; you, on the other hand, have to struggle with it all your life.

"Well, Anonymous, if the veil between heaven and earth can be set aside during the mass/Divine Service -- why would it be so hard for God to literally reach back in time and make present what "was" in the "here and now" -- God lives outside of time."

"What if" and "Why not" are bad ways to approach dealing with doctrine - we have to go the Bible. God can do many things, but in the Bible we find what He has and is doing, as opposed to wishful thinking. Maybe I sound a bit harsh, but blame it on the Internet and English being my second language. Or maybe just blame it on me, it's half past midnight here... Good night.

I stand with what I have previously said, In Roman Mass Christ is being sacrificed every day all around the world again and again and again, "yes, it's the same sacrifice!" but it's offered again and again and again... Call it anyway you like it, put it any terms you manage to find or to coin, it boils to the same... As one Croatian folk Christmas song says, We are praising Jesus... for the Sacrifice He has started for us... Yea, yea, I know, we must make distinction between the official statements and the folk expressions of a faith, but still, the letter sometime are closer to the truth of the matter.

Roger and over.
David Garner said...
Dixie wrote:

It is very important when discussing with someone of another faith that one doesn't misrepresent that faith. I, for one, appreciate Christine's insistence here. If Lutherans don't present the Catholic's position honestly then what Catholic is going to seriously be interested in listening or reading any points be made. It comes down to credibility. It is difficult to get others to listen (or read) one's point of view if in the presentation there is hyperbole or misrepresentation or out and out falsehoods.

Amen and amen. When I was struggling -- and I mean really struggling -- with becoming Orthodox, one thing nudged me toward the Orthodox Church and it kept coming up over and over and over.

When Lutherans criticized her, more often than not, they got her completely wrong.

A couple of very good Pastors were exceptions to that rule, lest either of them be reading this. But over and over, I would read or hear an objection to Orthodoxy that was just four square against what the Orthodox actually believe.

If you can't honestly critique a Church's beliefs without making them a caricature in the process, it's probably best to not speak at all. It's also, IMHO, almost always best to define what you believe and let actual believers in other traditions define what they believe. FWIW.
Anonymous said...
Pastor Peters, you asked in your post whether any other pastors could identify with the "parish" described by BrotherBoris. He could have been describing my first parish except that we weren't that well equipped technologically.

I was unprepared to find apple juice being distributed at the Lord's Supper to those who didn't want wine. Apple juice. I'm not kidding.

I appreciate all the fine doctrinal comparison between Rome and Wittenberg. I do. But seriously, there was apple juice in the inner ring of individual cups on the tray. We have far more serious problems in the LCMS than we even choose to talk about.

So yes, in general, I agree with the sentiment that the seminaries do a fine job at educating men to be Lutheran pastors. It took me a long time to realize that there just weren't that many Lutheran parishes out there.

Carl Vehse's comments, which I have found helpful on other topics and on this one can be fairly portrayed as "So what? Suck it up!" are simply not helpful. I don't think I'm just an overly sensitive soul. I was just beginning to cut my teeth on what it meant to be a Lutheran pastor. Trying to create all of that out of whole cloth in midst of opposition from God's people is superhuman. Doing it to the tune of, "Suck it up." Is impossible.

There are a fair number of lay folks and pastors who are now safely ensconced in their parishes. Good for them. I would offer a challenge. Just go to the LCMS website and do a geographical search for your area and start visiting congregation's websites even in the heartland (Neb, Wi, In, Mo, etc,). Just note what you find. The stereotypical parish of BrotherBoris' description is more often the case than not. Remember, the difference between a prejudice and a stereotype is that there is some basis in fact for a stereotype.

I will go on to say something that has not been said in the comments here or about the previous post. I guess what it boiled down to for me was that the professors didn't level with me. I don't know, maybe they did and I just didn't remember it. Nobody said, as Pastor Harrison did at St. Louis' call day service this year, "You're going out into the midst to suffer, ...sometimes at the hands of your own people." All I was told was, "If you teach enough, patiently enough and love them enough, of course they'll want to be Lutheran." That's simply not true. If it were, an entire generation of Israel would not have had to die in the wilderness.

My only advice to a man considering seminary now is, first make sure you have another way to feed yourself and and your family. Sure, God promises daily bread but it might come as a worker-pastor. Second, just be prepared to be faithful with what you have for a long time. Thousands are not flocking to hear the Gospel today. Thirdly, make sure you stay sane by being around others who will be encouraging.

Pastoring a church today is a lonely way.

I do post occasionally here and there and always use my name, however for this post I have chosen to remain anonymous for what I am about to say: if I had known then, what I know now I would not have rushed so blindly into this. I have thought of doing something else several times in 14 years of ministry. Some would say, "Well, go one then you whiner, we're better off without you." (Vehse, that's how you come across to me.) But here's the thing. The Lord of the Church still uses me in pretty amazing ways. That is encouraging.

It's just that my expectations were nowhere reality. That reality adjustment takes time and care.

And Mr. Vehse, I don't really know you, but there should be room to be a little gentler toward a new fellow who's trying to make it work even if he's a little whiny.

It's not as easy as it looks.
Terry Maher said...
You know what David, it is true that when Lutherans criticise Orthodoxy, or Catholicism, they often get it completely wrong. What is more amazing is, when Lutherans applaud Orthodoxy or Catholicism, they often get it completely wrong too!

There is no point in arguing over whether the Roman Church teaches that Christ is sacrificed again in what it calls the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It does not so teach, end of story. And if one insists "Oh yes it does", one is guaranteed to not make a dent addressing Catholicism, especially re the error it does teach about the Mass or the true mass set out in the BOC, as any even halfassed taught Catholic will recognise one has no idea what one is talking about.

And last Anonymous, take heart, some of us are with you. Sometimes I think being a pastor is like being a soldier -- even with the best training there is, it's a little different when you actually get downrange and things and people start blowing up and dying.
Pastor Peters said...
I have it in my memory somewhere that youth at the confirmation were once slapped across the face as a reminder of the rejection of Christ in the world and their rough road as people of God swimming upstream in the world set against Him. I do not know if this is true or mythology, but I often have thought it might be an appropriate gesture to use after the laying on of hands in the ordination rite.

I would encourage you, dear wounded brother, as one who has been there (and often still is) that what we do in faithfulness to the Lord is not forgotten, nor is it in vain, but are not given to see the fruits of our labors (at least not as often as I would like).

Bless you and bless your labor for the Lord and you are in my prayers...
Terry Maher said...
It's not mythology, but it was not a real slap across the face either. The old rubric reads: Deinde leviter eum in maxilla caedit, dicens: Pax tecum.

This is a sign of peace. The "slap" is more like a tap, and meant to be a reminder to face the struggle of faith bravely.

I say old rite because all mention of it disappeared in the novus ordo. Like so much else. National bishops' conferences may establish such customs as they deem appropriate to a sign of peace, or none at all.

Pax tecum, Peace be with thee, that's the message, in both word and gesture. It's in the familiar person in Latin, which is why I used the familiar person in English though it has dropped from general usage -- it's among family.
Carl Vehse said...
"Carl Vehse's comments, which I have found helpful on other topics and on this one can be fairly portrayed as "So what? Suck it up!" are simply not helpful."

Well, that is your interpretation of what I said; it is not what I said.

But now that you mention it, we are told to "imagine" a new pastor who accepts a call to some "podunk" church and then whines about the congregation because:

1. They refer to "the Lord's Supper" rather than the "Eucharist."
2. They only have the Lord's Supper once a month.
3. They consider themselves a "congregation" rather than a "parish."
4. The church interior is plain with white walls and no stained glass windows.
5. They have no crucifix.
6. They have hymnals in the pews, but the people use overhead screens to view the hymns.
7. The congregation would be surprised to know there is a Liturgical Calendar.
8. The congregation has not had a Christmas Day service.

I hope the new pastor would have an older mentor-pastor, in the circuit if possible, with whom he can communicate these whinings. Another job of this mentor-pastor would be to apply several sharp kicks to the young pastor's keister for being such a spoiled liturgical brat, who instead should be grateful to God that the sheep He gave him to care for cause him only these trivial, Wurlitzer-rather-than-a-Baldwin annoyances.
David Garner said...
You know what David, it is true that when Lutherans criticise Orthodoxy, or Catholicism, they often get it completely wrong. What is more amazing is, when Lutherans applaud Orthodoxy or Catholicism, they often get it completely wrong too!

Very true, and Orthodox are all too happy to return the favor in both directions.

I went 'round the bend with a guy on an Orthodox message board because he said the Lutheran view of sola scriptura could be fairly summarized as "the Bible according to what Martin Luther thinks." The amazing thing was that he had no background in Lutheranism, but still dug his heels in and insisted this view was true even where I quoted from the Confessions to prove him wrong.

That's why I said before and I'll say again -- it is almost always best to define what you believe and let actual believers in other traditions define what they believe.
BishopBob said...
"What we ought to be preparing our Pastors for is how to lead a parish through a sea change of identity and back into the confession and confessional practice that we claim defines us."
Although not yet over an LCMS congregation I place the burden of change on the pastor, he is the LEADER, so he must lead. Hold Lenten services if no one attends but his own family & the organist. Vest as appropriate to the season, which the bulletin should begin to reflect. Preach Law & Gospel. Close the altar (too many of them are "open"). Sing the hymns, if not in the pew books, then print them in the weekly bulletin & remove the non LCMS hymnals from the pulpits :-)
Brenda Aguado said...
To Pastor Peters,

My husband and I have wrestled with the question you have headed this blog entry with since October 2011, whether or not to leave the LCMS.We are both Christian since our childhoods and have been on long journeys through different denominations (and non-denominations) including several years on the house church circuit. We consider ourselves "Christian". We became members of our local LCMS in '07, our youngest daughter was baptized and catechized by a pastor who has since retired...and there began the problems. We are painfully aware that the pastor had been holding the church 'together' our local church is suffering from those who want to join mainstream protestantism (what we fled from, the so-called methabapticostalism term)and those that hold dear the Lutheran traditions and those are dying off. We came to feel safe with the Confession, having both the newly published Concordia and the 1959 Book of Concord. We had hopes the the newly installed pastor would get us back on the right track but he holds a liberal view. What happened in October was the 'Halloween party' that the pastor and his wife organized with the help of the methabapticostalism folks and we have been grieving ever since. To the point of leaving the LCMS because it is becoming apostate like all the other protestant churches. Yes, we have visited the area LCMS congregations and yes they are CW, etc. There is one, that still uses the Red Hymnal. It is where we attended Advent, Christmas and Lent. But we fear it will soon go the way of the rest. We are currently enrolled in Orthdox catechism and have friends already there...Grieving the passing of the conservative LCMS
Brenda Aguado
Anonymous said...
I agree with Brenda. The LCMS leadership fails to acknowledge that as soon as LCMS congregations imitate the non-denominational churches, the laymen will get the message that denominational differences don't matter. The decision to leave the LCMS for a non-denominational church therefore becomes a lot easier. After all, the praise band and the coffee are far superior at the other church down the street.

It does not matter how many changes are made by Matt Harrison at the Synod level. The districts are working hard to do the very opposite with their "Church Growth" and SMP programs. The LCMS can be considered dysfunctional at best. I have considered leaving the LCMS for the Orthodox, but certain Orthodox doctrines such as Theosis are just too creepy to me.
Benjamin Harju said...
Anon,

That's the first time I've ever heard the word "creepy" applied to Theosis. I'd be willing to listen to more about that off-blog if you wanted to share more about that.

I agree with your assessment of LCMS districts. The issue is the basic Christianity that the people in the pew have accepted. Asking the people to accept a Lutheranism that isn't supported institutionally across the board makes no sense to the average pew sitter. If I had not left for Orthodoxy, I would have advocated an institutional move on the part of Confessional Lutherans.
- See more at: http://pastoralmeanderings.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-would-lutheran-want-to-leave.html#sthash.6ynDec0y.dpuf

"Thou Shalt Not Steal" - Applies to Denominations, Too. Has WELS Returned St. John in Milwaukee Yet? Its Endowment Funds? VirtueOnline - News

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VirtueOnline - News:

The Episcopal Church loses in Texas Supreme Court 
Justices reject hierarchal argument for neutral principles of law

By Mary Ann Mueller 
Special Correspondent 
www.virtueonline.org 
August 30, 2013

AUSTIN, TEXAS-The Episcopal Church lost a major legal battle in Texas Friday when the nine-member state Supreme Court handed down two rulings knocking the knees out from under Katharine Jefferts Schori's unrelenting drive to strip realigned Episcopalians of their property and buildings in the Lone Star state. 

In both cases, the majority of justices ruled that the neutral principles of law must be followed in adjudicating legal disputes over church property. In the first case, entitled Masterson v. Diocese of Northwest Texas, involving the Church of the Good Shepherd in San Angelo, Justice Phil Johnson wrote: "In Masterson we held that the methodology referred to as 'neutral principles of law' must be used.

"This direct appeal involves the same principal issue we addressed in Masterson v. Diocese of Northwest Texas, what methodology is to be used when Texas courts decide which faction is entitled to a religious organization's property following a split or schism?" the Justice ruled. "But, in this case the trial court granted summary judgment on the basis of the "deference" or "identity" methodology, and the record does not warrant rendition of judgment to either party based on neutral principles of law."

As a result, the Texas Supreme Court is kicking case number 11-0265 The Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth v. The Episcopal Church back to the 141st District Court in Tarrant County, Texas and back into John Chupp's lap. It was Judge Chupp who granted a summary judgment to The Episcopal Church in Jan. 21, 2011 declaring that Bishop Jack Iker had to "surrender all Diocesan property, as well as control of the Diocesan Corporation, to the Diocesan plaintiffs and to provide an accounting of all Diocesan assets within 60 days of this order." In addition, "the Court hereby orders the Defendants not to hold themselves out as leaders of the Diocese."

However, the Texas Supreme Court said not so fast: "We reverse and remand to the trial court for further proceedings." 

A summery judgment is where a lone judge makes a determination in a case based upon what he summarizes to be the merits of that case. By doing so, the judge prevents the case from having a full hearing where the facts are revealed on both sides before a jury for adjudication to get a complete airing of the legal dispute in open court. The case is usually appealed to a higher authority. In this case, the Texas Supreme Court. 

The state Supreme Court ruled that Judge Chupp perhaps erred in failing to use the state's neutral principles of law in dealing with property disputes between ecclesial entities rather than relying on the "deference" or "identity" methodology in sorting things out thus buying into The Episcopal Church's claim to absolute hierarchal authority over dioceses and parishes and the grasp of the Dennis Canon upon diocesan and parish properties. 

Neutral principles of law refer to rules grounded in the law itself as opposed to rules based upon personal interests or religious beliefs. This means that a Texas court needs to rule based upon what the legal documents dictate rather than what the church doctrine, canons, or constitution say.

By ruling for the Church of the Good Shepherd in San Angelo and kicking the Diocese of Fort Worth's case back into a lower court, the Supreme Court is setting up precedence for the rule of neutral principle of law to be the guiding factor in dealing with continuing Episcopal Church property litigation in Texas.

"Today the Texas Supreme Court has released rulings in our direct appeal and in the appeal of the parish of Good Shepherd in San Angelo," Diocese of Fort Worth Director of Communications Suzanne Gill explained in a news release. "The Court adopted Neutral Principles of Law as the standard in Texas, overturned the Summary Judgment against us, and remanded our case to the trial court in Fort Worth for rehearing under Neutral Principles.

"The two decisions establish 'neutral principles of law' as the governing approach to church property disputes in Texas courts," explained Allan Haley a noted attorney and canon lawyer who has been keeping a close eye on all of The Episcopal Church's on-going litigations. "And under that approach, as we have seen happen time and again more recently, courts are coming to realize that ECUSA's case has no neutral principles going for it."

Hailey added that the last time the Texas Supreme Court addressed the neutral principles issue in dealing with church property was in 1909, 70 years before the U.S. Supreme Court authorized "neutral principles" in Jones v. Wolf, case number 443 U.S. 595 which was ruled on in 1979. 

Now Texas joins a host of states that use the neutral principle of law in dealing with church real estate disputes. 

Several states have specially decided to use the Jones v. Wolf opinion in their dealings with church property litigations. The 1979 case before the nation's highest court involved Vineville Presbyterian Church, a Presbyterian Church in the United States of America (PCUSA) congregation in Macon, Georgia originally founded 1903. The church membership voted in 1973 to realign with the more theologically conservative Presbyterian Church of America (PCA) taking their property with them. 

PCUSA's position was that Vineville was bound by the control of the Session, Presbytery, Synod, and ultimately the General Assembly and the congregants could not take their building with them. 

Supreme Court Justice Harold Blackmun - who is noted for his authorship of the Roe v Wade ruling - wrote the majority Jones v. Wolf opinion which states: "The state has an obvious and legitimate interest in the peaceful resolution of property disputes, and in providing a civil forum where the ownership of church property can be determined conclusively," thus upholding the Georgia Supreme Court's ruling in affirming a lower court's decision in applying Georgia's neutral principles of law to the Presbyterian dispute. 

But alas, Vineville Presbyterian is no longer. In 2009 the once large Caucasian congregation of 600-plus dwindled to fewer than 50 and voted to disband and turn their property over to the Central Georgia Presbytery which immediately used it for the restart of a multiracial and multicultural congregation at the same location. The redefined parish is named Strong Tower Fellowship. 

The states that specially reference Jones v Wolf as natural principles of law in dealing with ecclesial property matters include: Alaska, Arkansas, Illinois, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Wisconsin. 

The Episcopal Church has already experienced that the Dennis Canon has no weight in South Carolina. The 2009, the South Carolina Supreme Court ruled that "South Carolina courts are to apply the neutral principles of law approach as approved by the Supreme Court of the United States in Jones v. Wolf." That Sept. 18 ruling came down concerning All Saints Parish Waccamaw v. Protestant Episcopal Church in which the South Carolina Supreme Court declared that the Waccamaw Parish dated as far back a 1734 and the first written trust deed was signed in 1745 where 60 acres were deeded "forever in Trust For the Inhabitants On Waccamaw Neck for Use of A Chapel or Church for divine Worship of the Church of England established by Law․"

The Church of England's direct authority over colonial parishes ceased during the Revolutionary War and the parish was re-established by the South Carolina General Assembly in 1778. The Protestant Episcopal Church of the United States was formed in 1789 from nine original founding dioceses including the Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina that was created in 1785 with the Waccamaw Parish being a part of it. Fast forward to 1902 when All Saints became concerned about the status of its charter following the destruction of church documents in a "Great Strom" -- possibly a hurricane -- around the turn of the 20th century. In 1903, the trustees of the Diocese of South Carolina signed a 1903 Quit-Claim Deed thereby transferring any interest the Diocese may have had in the congregation's property to All Saints Parish in Waccamaw.

Then in 1979, the Dennis Canon came on the scene attempting to draw all Episcopal congregations with their personal and real properties under its umbrella so that the chattels may be held by or for the benefit and in trust for this Church and the Diocese that the congregation is located. However, in no way was Canon I.7.4 intended to limit the power and authority of the local congregation so long as it remains a part of, and subject to, The Episcopal Church and its Constitution and Canons.

"The Dennis Canon purports to declare a trust, in favor of the ECUSA and the Diocese, on all real and personal property held by any congregation," the South Carolina Supreme Court ruling explains. "No such property canons existed in 1902 when the Diocese directed the congregation to incorporate, or when it executed the 1903 Quit-Claim Deed in favor of the newly created All Saints Parish, Waccamaw, Inc."

In 2000, All Saints did a title search and learned that the 1745 Trust Deed and the 1903 Quit-Claim Deed were the only recorded land deeds pertaining to the congregation's property. About that same time, the Diocese of South Carolina recorded a notice in Georgetown County legally declaring that the Waccamaw congregation held its property, pursuant to the Dennis Canon, in trust for the benefit of the ECUSA and the Diocese.

Applying only the natural principles of law, the South Carolina Supreme Court ruled that when the Church Act of 1767 formed the colonial All Saints Parish, the Statute of Uses operated to execute the trust created by the 1745 Trust Deed and title vested in the intended beneficiary, the congregation of All Saints Parish; that the 1903 Quit-Claim Deed makes it clear that All Saints Parish, Waccamaw, Inc. holds title to its property noting that All Saints Parish congregation was officially incorporated in 1820, that the 1903 Quit-Claim Deed makes clear that title to the property at issue is currently held by the congregation's corporate entity-All Saints Parish, Waccamaw, Inc.;and that neither the Dennis Canon, which is a church-based canon, has no legal effect on title to the All Saints congregation's property. In addition, the Diocese did not, at the time it recorded the 2000 Notice, have any interest in the congregation's property. Therefore, the recordation of the 2000 Notice could not have created a trust over the property.

"For the aforementioned reasons, we hold that title to the property at issue is held by All Saints Parish, Waccamaw, Inc., the Dennis Canons had no legal effect on the title to the congregation's property, and the 2000 Notice should be removed from the Georgetown County records," the Supreme Court ruled.

The All Saints ruling has set a precedent in South Carolina for the application of natural principles of law in determining church property ownership and taking the teeth out of the Dennis Canon. All this should come to play as The Diocese of South Carolina continues its battle with The Church in South Carolina over diocesan property that dates back to colonial days.

Now Texas, too, has a precedent-setting state Supreme Court ruling in place to help guide the courts in determining church property ownership using only the neutral principles of law and not getting mired in church politics, doctrine, constitution and canons in sorting out the intricacies of ecclesial property ownership. 


Mary Ann Mueller is a journalist living in Texas. She is a regular contributor to VirtueOnline

'via Blog this'

Tim Glende's First Church Will Close Soon - Due To Lack of Members, Lack of Funds, Lack of Mission Support

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Bethlehem Lutheran is now Eastern Orthodox.

Pastor Tim had to "redevelop" the congregation,
so he could dump the building for a new one with a coffee bar.
I am not kidding.

Very nice church - right on a university campus,
but Bully Tim and his wife did not like it.

Essential Links about the Continuing Fox Valley WELS Scandal.

Star of Bethlehem, Tim's redo of Bethlehem Lutheran Church, is ready to close. The mission board tossed oodles of money at Tim so he could play Emergent Church in Illinois and show those rubes what he learned from Floyd Stolzenburg and Roger Zehms in Columbus, Ohio.

By the way, Tim's home church is also shriveling up under the guidance of various adherent of the Church Shrinkage Movement.

Star of Bethlehem cannot make the mortgage payments, let along the other expenses. The members who joined with Pastor Tim after taking one Bible Information Class are leaving.

Not to worry. The synod will sell the property and get a bunch of cash for it.

It works like this - the members have to pay all the bills and hefty interest payments to the synod. The synod gets the equity when their incompetence is overwhelming.

Pastor Keith Free and SP Schroeder had over $500,000 to give away to buy St. Peter's in Freedom a bankrupt bar. They have nothing for the wreckage he left behind in Illinois. He did not even stay for the ground-breaking of his precious coffee bar church in the cornfields.

"Follow Me, brethren,
and nothing can go wrong."

Fourteenth Sunday after Trinity. Luke 17:11-17. Healing of the Ten Lepers

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The Fourteenth Sunday after Trinity, 2013


Pastor Gregory L. Jackson


Bethany Lutheran Church, 10 AM Central Time


The Hymn # 292                 Lord Jesus Christ               1:2
The Confession of Sins
The Absolution
The Introit p. 16
The Gloria Patri
The Kyrie p. 17
The Gloria in Excelsis
The Salutation and Collect p. 19
The Epistle and Gradual       
The Gospel              
Glory be to Thee, O Lord!
Praise be to Thee, O Christ!
The Nicene Creed             p. 22
The Sermon Hymn # 192               Awake My Heart            1:22 

Descriptions of Faith

The Communion Hymn # 480            Lord of the Worlds            1:62
The Preface p. 24
The Sanctus p. 26
The Lord's Prayer p. 27
The Words of Institution
The Agnus Dei p. 28
The Nunc Dimittis p. 29
The Benediction p. 31
The Hymn # 511     Jesus Shall Reign                1:80

KJV Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

KJV Luke 17:11 And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. 12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: 13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. 14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed. 15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God, 16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan. 17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine? 18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger. 19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

Fourteenth Sunday After Trinity

Lord God, heavenly Father, who by Thy blessed word and Thy holy baptism hast mercifully cleansed all who believe from the fearful leprosy of sin, and daily dost grant us Thy gracious help in all our need: We beseech Thee so to enlighten our hearts by Thy Holy Spirit, that we may never forget these Thy blessings, but ever live in Thy fear, and, trusting fully in Thy grace, with thankful hearts continually praise and glorify Thee; through Thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, who liveth and reigneth with Thee and the Holy Ghost, one true God, world without end. Amen.


Descriptions of Faith

KJV Luke 17:11 And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. 12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: 13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.


5. In the first place it is a characteristic of faith to presume to trust God’s grace, and it forms a bright vision and refuge in God, doubting nothing it thinks God will have regard for his faith, and not forsake it. For where there is no such vision and confidence, there is no true faith, and there is also no true prayer nor any seeking after God. But where it exists it makes man bold and anxious freely to bring his troubles unto God, and earnestly to pray for help.

This is a miraculous healing where we learn so much about faith and also about thankfulness. Ten lepers heard about the miraculous power of Christ. This report  or sermon or confession of faith by others moved them to ask Jesus for healing.

KJV Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? [the sermon that was heard) 17 So then faith cometh by hearing [the sermon], and hearing [the sermon] by the Word of God.

In this passage from the Means of Grace chapter in Romans, Paul described the three-fold impact of the Gospel Report. One word is used in a three-fold way, very concisely showing the relationship between the revealed Word of God, the sermon based on the Word of God, and faith created by the Word of God. It is not simply the act of hearing, but hearing the powerful Gospel Word, such as the Healing of the Ten Lepers.

This healing presumes the lepers heard the report and were so filled with trust in Jesus that they faced the mockery and rejection of the crowd to beg him for healing. Nothing is quite so bad as a disfiguring disorder. For some reason we really have trouble looking past the unusual face or skin or features of someone.

Besides this, the lepers were unclean and therefore unwelcome among their own family friends, not to mention strangers.

The lepers bodies are weak, so their voices are small and difficult to hear. So they put together all their weak voices and begged Jesus in faith, as a group.

But true faith does not doubt the good and gracious will of God.

Wherefore its prayer is strong and firm like faith itself. St. Luke does not relate three things of them in vain; first, that they went to meet him; second, they stood; third, they lifted up their voices. By these three things their strong faith is commended and presented to us as an example.

We have laughed over the long-time friends we have met at the oddest times. Chris expects to, so she is on the lookout. She was sure she saw someone on I-80 and so we persisted until the professor stopped the car along the interstate, we greeted each other, and got together at the next rest stop. We saw the same couple at the Mayo Clinic, purely by accident.

We were a bit miffed that we were forced into a new place in downtown Chicago, on a trip. We parked and walked on the sidewalk, only to have Chris say she saw another long-time friend ahead. There was no way to tell in a polite way, so I shouted, “Lenny!” and the Lenny we sought turned around.

The funniest was when I explained carefully that appearing at a seminary in downtown Chicago, without plans, could hardly get us to see another long-lost friend, who had no regular business at that location. Just as I was done with an excellent, reasoned explanation, that same person came walking down the hall toward us.

The best was similar, where Chris wanted to see the doctor who delivered our son. She was the daughter of our friends’ friend in Davenport. Her father was a famous conductor in Chicago. We were at the Kline Biology Tower, a large Yale building for many science doctorates. How could we even look for Hester? or remember what she looked like? And there she was – name tag and all. Chris explained her excitement and Hester hoisted our toddler up in the air. “We didn’t do so badly with this one,” she said.

In each case, not having faith for a good outcome would mean not even trying. Why look for the impossible? Many people do that today. They have no expectation of a good outcome because they trust in human reason alone and not in God.

People explain why they have to remain slaves of their synod and go to their expensive synod schools – “because there is no other choice.” America has been populated by people who risked everything in creaky ships because they trust God would give them a better place to worship in freedom without oppressive bullies.

As Chytraeus explained in his excellent book, it is a sin to question the goodness of God. That means, in faith we see the wisdom and mercy of God – even in the difficult moments of life. After five straight years of decline in the education business, I expected to semi-retire with the help of Social Security. I suddenly found myself needed in a job I prepared to do before the Dark Times – teaching English.

9. Behold this good inclination or comforting trust, or free presumption toward God, or whatever you may call it, in the Scriptures is called Christian faith and a good conscience, which man must have if he desires to be saved. But it is not obtained by human works and precepts, as we shall see in this example, and without such a heart no work is good. Therefore be on your guard, there are many lecturers who want to teach faith and conscience, and know less about them than a common blockhead. [WELS plus the LCMS Seminaries, the ELS and ELCA!] They think it is a sleepy, lazy thing in the soul, that it is enough for the heart to believe that God is God. But here you observe what a thoroughly living and powerful thing faith is. It creates wholly a new heart, a new man, who expects all grace from God. Therefore it urges to walk, to stand, makes bold to cry and pray in every time of trouble.

10. The second characteristic of faith is that it does not desire to know, nor first to be assured whether it is worthy of grace and will be heard, like the doubters, who grasp after God and tempt him. Just as a blind man runs against a wall, so they also plunge against God, and would first gladly feel and be assured that he can not escape out of their hands. The Epistle to the Hebrews says, <581101> 11:1: “Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.” This clearly means faith holds fast to what it does not see, feel or experience, either in body or soul, but as it has firm trust in God it commits itself to and relies upon it without any doubt but its hope will be realized. Thus it will also certainly be realized, and the feeling and experience will come to it unsought and unsolicited, even in and through such hope or faith.

We cannot call it faith if we imagine we have to qualify for forgiveness. The lepers were in a position to realize that truth. Nothing in their world told them they were deserving of anything, and yet they were filled with faith in the goodness of God and Jesus’ power to heal them.

12. The third characteristic of faith is, that it allows of no merit, will not purchase the grace of God with works, like the doubters and hypocrites do, but brings with it pure unworthiness, clings to and depends wholly on the mere unmerited favor of God, for faith will not tolerate works and merit in its company, so entirely does it surrender, venture and raise itself into the goodness for which it hopes, that for its sake it cannot consider either good works or merit. Yea, it sees that this goodness is so great, that all good works compared with it are nothing but sin. Therefore it finds only unworthiness in self, that it is more worthy of wrath than of grace; and it does this without any dissimulation, for he sees how in reality and in truth it cannot be otherwise 13. These lepers here prove this clearly, who hope for the grace of Christ without the least merit. What good had they ever done to him before? They had never seen him, how then could they have served him? Besides they were lepers, whom he could justly have avoided according to the law, Leviticus 13:1, and kept himself free from them as was just and right.

One of the bizarre characteristics of this age, no different from others, is people buying respect and forgiveness through the visible church. As long as they give princely sums, their store-bought clergy servants proclaim their great goodness, even though there is no evidence of faith or contrition.

Thus the business deal is made. The rich man will ignore Lazarus at the gate so the clergy will praise him. The clergy will ignore Lazarus so they will have more money to spend on themselves – all for the glory of God, of course.

15. Behold, here is a good, real, living and true example of Christian faith, that sufficiently teaches us how we must be disposed if we would find grace, piety and salvation. Now, in addition to this doctrine follows the incentive or inducement to faith, that we should gladly believe as we are at present taught to believe. This incentive, however, consists in that we observe how such faith never fails, that as it believes so it comes to pass, and that it is certainly heard and answered.

So the idea of a bargain or contract is lacking in the Word of God. The believer expects the best of God and will see that accomplished in time. Rather than thinking he is working toward forgiveness and eternal life, he sees God’s grace as additional motivation to trust in all that may happen in the present and future.

What else does this mean than to say: Through me in faith you now have everything that I am and have: I am your own, you are now rich and satisfied through me; for all I do and love I do and love not for my but only for your sake, and I only think how to be useful and helpful to you, and accomplish whatever you need and should have. Therefore consider this example, to do to each other as I have done to you, and only consider how to be useful to your neighbor, and do what is useful and necessary for him.

Your faith has enough in my love and grace; so your love shall also give enough to others.

Luther always emphasized that God provides for all human needs, but for our spiritual needs especially – and those are the most important. When we worry too much about daily needs we also forget about our neighbor. But God has given us enough and more than enough for that.

The churches that had very little on their own a century ago – they sent missionaries all over world, often with through the ladies missionary societies.
Now established congregations have great wealth and bring the missionaries back home.



23. See, this is what James means when he says, 2:26: “Faith apart from works is dead.” For as the body without the soul is dead, so is faith without works. Not that faith is in man and does not work, which is impossible. For faith is a living, active thing. But in order that men may not deceive themselves and think they have faith when they have not, they are to examine their works, whether they also love their neighbors and do good to them. If they do this, it is a sign that they have the true faith. If they do not do this, they only have the sound of faith, and it is with them as the one who sees himself in the glass and when he leaves it and sees himself no more, but sees other things, forgets the face in the glass, as James says in his first chapter, verses 23-24. [This passage in James deceivers and blind masters have spun out so far, that they have demolished faith and established only works, as though righteousness and salvation did not rest on faith, but on our works. To this great darkness they afterwards added still more, and taught only good works which are no benefit to your neighbor, as fasting, repeating many prayers, observing festival days; not to eat meat, butter, eggs and milk; to build churches, cloisters, chapels, altars; to institute masses, vigils, hours; to wear gray, white and black clothes; to be spiritual; and innumerable things of the same kind, from which no man has any benefit or enjoyment; all which God condemns, and that justly. But St. James means that a Christian life is nothing but faith and love. Love is only being kind and useful to all men, to friends and enemies. And where faith is right, it also certainly loves, and does to another in love as Christ did to him in faith.

Thus we say, too, that faith is everything and it saves us, that a man needs no more for his salvation. Yet he is on this account not idle, but labors much, all however for the benefit of his neighbor, and not for himself; for he does not need it, he has enough in Christ.

All those great professors (like David Scaer) and church leaders (like Jon Buchholz, Wayne Mueller, and Mark Schroeder) imagine that the entire world is saved without faith– that Luther and the Book of Concord teach this strange notion. They peer through their spectacles and find Paul teaching the same nonsense that they have invented, and naturally persecute anyone who openly challenges them.

The modernists are full of contradictions, because they read their notions into the Scriptures and Confessions, which look like a bowl of raspberries with insects swimming around in the juice. It’s difficult to ignore the insects, but the UOJ stylists say – no, this is the real truth of Christianity, the real teaching of Paul and Luther and it has always been so.

But every time I post a Luther sermon, I find just the opposite to be true. Luther is consistent in teaching justification by faith because that is the Chief Article of the Scriptures.

Once that is seen, people realize how much fraud has been promoted in the last century.

35. And this is the method God employs with us all to strengthen and prove our faith, and he treats us so that we know not what he will do with us. This he does for the reason, that man is to commend himself to him and rely on his mere goodness, and not doubt that he will give what we desire or something better. So also these lepers thought: Very well, we will go as he commands, and although he does not tell us whether he will cleanse us or not, this shall not influence us to esteem him any the less than before.

Yea, we will only esteem him so much the more and higher, and joyfully wait, if he will not cleanse us, he will do still better for us than if we were cleansed, and we will not on that account despair of mercy and favor.


Behold, this is the true increase of faith.

40. So these words of the text, “And it came to pass, as they went, they were cleansed,” would say: It is impossible for faith to fail, it must take place as it believes. For if these lepers had not believed and remained steadfast, of course they would not have gone. Therefore, not for the sake of their going, but on account of their faith they became cleansed, because of which they also went.

Not knowing means believing – for we walk by faith, not by sight.


82. How beautifully he divides the three principles, that faith goes forth in trusting, love in laboring, and hope in patience and suffering. As though he would say: Your faith is not a dream nor a fancy, but it is life and action; and your love is not passive nor is it idle, but it serves well for your neighbor. All this takes place in prosperous days. while your hope is exercised in suffering and patience, and all this in Christ; for there is no faith, nor love, nor hope outside of Christ, as I said above. Thus a Christian life goes through good and evil until the end, and yet it does not seek revenge, and only grows more and more in faith, love and hope.

"Early in the morning it rises, sits upon a twig and sings a song it has learned, while it knows not where to obtain its food, and yet it is not worried as to where to get its breakfast. Later, when it is hungry, it flies away and seeks a grain of corn, where God stored one away for it, of which it never thought while singing, when it had cause enough to be anxious about its food. Ay, shame on you now, that the little birds are more pious and believing than you; they are happy and sing with joy and know not whether they have anything to eat."
Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., ed. John Nicholas Lenker, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983, V, p. 114. Trinity 15 Matthew 6:24-34                                                 

"Pietist preachers were anxious to discover and in a certain sense to separate the invisible congregation from the visible congregation. They had to meet demands different than those of the preceding period: they were expected to witness, not in the objective sense, as Luther did, to God's saving acts toward all men, but in a subjective sense of faith, as they themselves had experienced it. In this way Pietism introduced a tendency toward the dissolution of the concept of the ministry in the Lutheran Church."
Helge Nyman, "Preaching (Lutheran): History," The Encyclopedia of the Lutheran Church, 3 vols., ed. Julius Bodensieck, Minneapolis: Augsburg Publishing House, 1965, III, p. 1943.                                                   

"We have no intention of yielding aught of the eternal, immutable truth of God for the sake of temporal peace, tranquility, and unity (which, moreover, is not in our power to do). Nor would such peace and unity, since it is devised against the truth and for its suppression, have any permanency. Still less are we inclined to adorn and conceal a corruption of the pure doctrine and manifest, condemned errors. But we entertain heartfelt pleasure and love for, and are on our part sincerely inclined and anxious to advance, that unity according to our utmost power, by which His glory remains to God uninjured, nothing of the divine truth of the Holy Gospel is surrendered, no room is given to the least error, poor sinners are brought to true, genuine repentance, raised up by faith, confirmed in new obedience, and thus justified and eternally saved alone through the sole merit of Christ." (Closing of Formula of Concord, Triglotta. p. 1095)
Francis Pieper, The Difference Between Orthodox And Heterodox Churches, and Supplement, Coos Bay, Oregon: St. Paul's Lutheran Church, 1981, p. 65. Tappert, p. 632. Heiser, p. 294. FC SD XI, #94-96.                                             


"Thus too, if our confidence is to begin, and we become strengthened and comforted, we must well learn the voice of our Shepherd, and let all other voices go, who only lead us astray, and chase and drive us hither and thither. We must hear and grasp only that article which presents Christ to us in the most friendly and comforting manner possible. So that we can say with all confidence: My Lord Jesus Christ is truly the only Shepherd, and I, alas, the lost sheep, which has strayed into the wilderness, and I am anxious and fearful, and would gladly be good, and have a gracious God and peace of conscience, but here I am told that He is as anxious for me as I am for Him." Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., ed., John Nicholas Lenker, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983, IV, p. 86. Third Sunday after Trinity, Second Sermon Luke 15:1-10.                                                 

All Things Gay at the 2013 ELCA Churchwide Assembly and Beyond - Exposing the ELCA

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All Things Gay at the 2013 ELCA Churchwide Assembly and Beyond - Exposing the ELCA:

 
Matthew 18:6 - "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

The ELCA will have to answer to God for their wickedness. They continue to encourage Christians who struggle with same-sex attraction to act on their sinful desires. In 2009 the ELCA essentially declared homosexuality good, that it was not sinful but the way God created some people. At the 2013 churchwide assembly the ELCA passed three more memorials centering on homosexuality.

The articles by ReconcilingWorks, a Lutheran LGBT rights organization explain the memorials from their point of view:
  •  Memorial calling for opening dialog across the church about ministering to same-gender couples passed by the 2013 ELCA Churchwide Assembly (read here)

  •  ENDA Memorial calling for a fully inclusive act preventing discrimination on employment passed by the 2013 Churchwide Assembly (read here)

  •  UAFA Memorial calling for comprehensive immigration reform that includes the families of LGBT people passed by the 2013 ELCA Churchwide Assembly(read here)

Also at the 2013 ELCA CW Assembly the newly-elected Presiding Bishop let it be known that she believes the 2009 ELCA homosexuality votes were the right decision (read here) and the man voted to be the Secretary of the ELCA is a vocal advocate for homosexual marriage. (read here)

While we are on this topic check out the letter 3 ELCA Bishops in California wrote affirming the right for ELCA churches to perform gay marriages. Of course ReconcilingWorks applauds the statement. (read here)

The ELCA... leading people deeper into sin.

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Dennis McCarthy: Pam Murphy, widow of actor Audie Murphy, was veterans' friend and advocate

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Audie Murphy
http://www.audiemurphy.com/


Dennis McCarthy: Pam Murphy, widow of actor Audie Murphy, was veterans' friend and advocate:


Dennis McCarthy: Pam Murphy, widow of actor Audie Murphy, was veterans' friend and advocate


After Audie died, they all became her boys. Every last one of them.
Any soldier or Marine who walked into the Sepulveda VA hospital and care center in the last 35 years got the VIP treatment from Pam Murphy.
The widow of Audie Murphy – the most decorated soldier in World War II – would walk the hallways with her clipboard in hand making sure her boys got to see a specialist or doctor — STAT. If they didn't, watch out.
Her boys weren't Medal of Honor recipients or movie stars like Audie, but that didn't matter to Pam. They had served their country. That was good enough for her.
She never called a veteran by his first name. It was always "Mister." Respect came with the job.
"Nobody could cut through VA red tape faster than Mrs. Murphy," said veteran Stephen Sherman, speaking for thousands of veterans she befriended over the years.
"Many times I watched her march a veteran who had been waiting more than an hour right into the doctor's office. She was even reprimanded a few times, but it didn't matter to Mrs. Murphy.
"Only her boys mattered. She was our angel."
Last week, Sepulveda VA's angel for the last 35 years died peacefully in her sleep at age 90.
"She was in bed watching the Laker game, took one last breath, and that was it," said Diane Ruiz, who also worked at the VA and cared for Pam in the last years of her life in her Canoga Park apartment.
It was the same apartment Pam moved into soon after Audie died in a plane crash on Memorial Day weekend in 1971.
Audie Murphy died broke, squandering million of dollars on gambling, bad investments, and yes, other women.
"Even with the adultery and desertion at the end, he always remained my hero," Pam told me.
She went from a comfortable ranch-style home in Van Nuys where she raised two sons to a small apartment - taking a clerk's job at the nearby VA to support herself and start paying off her faded movie star husband's debts.
At first, no one knew who she was. Soon, though, word spread through the VA that the nice woman with the clipboard was Audie Murphy's widow.
It was like saying Patton had just walked in the front door. Men with tears in their eyes walked up to her and gave her a hug. "Thank you," they said, over and over.
The first couple of years, I think the hugs were more for Audie's memory as a war hero. The last 30 years, they were for Pam.
She hated the spotlight. One year I asked her to be the focus of a Veteran's Day column for all the work she had done. Pam just shook her head no.
"Honor them, not me," she said, pointing to a group of veterans down the hallway. "They're the ones who deserve it."
The vets disagreed. Mrs. Murphy deserved the accolades, they said.
Incredibly, in 2002, Pam's job was going to be eliminated in budget cuts. She was considered "excess staff."
"I don't think helping cut down on veterans' complaints and showing them the respect they deserve, should be considered excess staff," she told me.
Neither did the veterans. They went ballistic, holding a rally for her outside the VA gates.
Pretty soon, word came down from the top of the VA. Pam Murphy was no longer considered "excess staff." She remained working full time at the VA until 2007 when she was 87.
"The last time she was here was a couple of years ago for the conference we had for homeless veterans," said Becky James, coordinator of the VA's Veterans History Project.
Pam wanted to see if there was anything she could do to help some more of her boys.
Funeral services for Pam Murphy will be held Friday at 2:30 p.m. in the chapel at Forest Lawn, Hollywood Hills, 6300 Forest Lawn Drive, Los Angeles. Dennis McCarthy's column appears Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday.

Mrs. Audie Murphy.

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Team Glende's Lawsuits - Restraining Orders - Question and Answer

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Ski admitted his sexual harassment of this man's wife to DP Doug,
but Engelbrecht has moved heaven and earth to protect
Ski and Glende, to punish any truth-tellers.

Q:   Is a restraining order for me?
As a member of society you and/or your family have the right to feel safe at home, work, and in the community. If someone is violating these rights, you need to take appropriate actions to protect yourself and/or your family. Depending upon your personal situation there are three types of restraining orders that can help protect you: Domestic Abuse, Child Abuse, and Harassment.
Q:  Where do I start?
  • First, you will need to contact an Advocate at the District Attorney's Office in the St. Croix County Government Center located in Hudson, Wisconsin. You may also contact a victim advocate by phone at 715.386.4666. By speaking with an advocate, you will be able to decide the type of petition that fits your situation.
  • Second, you will need to come to the Government center to file your petition. At this time the advocate will help answer any questions you may have and help you in completing the petition. The victim advocate's office is located on the main level, Room 1259, of the Government Center.
  • Third, after completing the petition, the advocate will bring the petition to the Judge for review. During this time, the Judge will decide whether to grant a Temporary Restraining Order.
Basic Definitions
Petitioner - person filing for a Temporary Restraining Order/Injunction
Respondent - the person against whom the petition is being filed
Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) - a restraining order that is in effect for seven days or until the injunction hearing.
Injunction Hearing - a hearing before the Court where it is decided if there has been Domestic Abuse, Child Abuse and/or Harassment. If the court finds that any of these have occurred the court may issue an injunction up to, but not more then, two years.
Domestic Abuse Order - the petitioner and respondent must be family members or household members (people who in the past or now live in the same place), or have a child in common. A domestic abuse restraining order prohibits any contact by the respondent to the petitioner and the respondent must leave the home. Facts needed on the petition for a domestic abuse order include a showing of an intentional infliction or threat to inflict physical pain, physical injury, or illness; intentional impairment of physical condition; or sexual contact or intercourse without consent. There is no filing fee for this order.
Harassment Order - the facts in the petition must show that the respondent struck, shoved, kicked, or otherwise subjected the petitioner to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do so, or that the respondent engages in a course of conduct, or repeatedly commits acts which serve no legitimate purpose. A harassment restraining order prohibits any harassment by the respondent, but cannot force the respondent out of the home nor can it automatically order no contact. There is a filing fee for this order, unless it qualifies under the state statute including a domestic relationship or stalking.
Child Abuse Order - the facts must show that a person under 18 years of age has had physical injury inflicted by other than accidental means or there has been sexual intercourse or sexual contact under Wisconsin Statute 940.225 or 948.02 or there is a violation of sexual exploitation of a child, Wisconsin Statute 948.05, or the abuser has permitted or required a child to violate prostitution statute, § 944.30, or there has been emotional damage as defined in Wisconsin Statute 813.122(1)(e) or there has been a threat to engage in any of the above conduct. The court can order the respondent to avoid the child's residence and to have no contact with the child. There is no filing fee for this order.
Q:  After the TRO, Then What?
  • If a TRO is ordered by the court, a court date will be set for an injunction hearing. The petitioner should then contact law enforcement to have them serve the papers on the respondent. Never give the respondent the legal papers yourself.
  • At the Injunction hearing, as the petitioner, you must appear in court and may bring others/advocates for moral support. Both the petitioner and the respondent have the opportunity to be heard at the injunction hearing. If the facts show domestic abuse, harassment, or child abuse has occurred, the court may issue an injunction for a period of not more than two years. The respondent may or may not be present at the hearing but must be served notification of the hearing.
Q:  Do I Need An Attorney?
No. But, you may wish to hire an attorney or speak to an attorney prior to the hearing.
Q:  Does The Respondent Need An Attorney?
No, however, the respondent may hire an attorney to represent him/her. If so, you may wish to reconsider obtaining legal counsel. A free attorney will not be appointed for the respondent. This is not a criminal proceeding.
Q:  Are There Penalties For Respondents Who Break TRO or Injunction?
A:  Yes.  If the respondent violates the order, once it is in effect, report it to law enforcement immediately and every time. Then the respondent may be arrested for breaking the order and may face criminal charges.
  • The penalties for the violation of domestic abuse and child abuse are imprisonment not to exceed nine months, a fine not to exceed $1,000, or both.
  • The penalties for the violation of harassment orders are imprisonment not to exceed 90 days, a fine not to exceed $1,000, or both.
Practical Points to Remember
  • Respondents may be angry when they receive the temporary restraining order.  Anger most likely will be directed towards you.  Take all the steps necessary to insure your safety.  Have a safety plan for yourself and your child(ren).
  • Petitioners need to be in a position where they can call for help. Law Enforcement will not know when petitioners are in trouble. 911 should be called in an emergency.  Remember to keep the petition with you at all times.
  • The court takes these cases seriously and expects everyone else to take them seriously. The orders are to be enforced by any or all law enforcement officers in and out of the State of Wisconsin.
Conclusion
  • We are concerned for your safety and the safety of your child(ren). These are serious situations and people's lives may be in danger. We recognize this is a difficult step to take, but it is an important step for your safety and for taking control of your life. You should not have to live in fear.
  • Violence should not be accepted as normal behavior. You are not responsible for the behavior of the person who is hurting you. Statistics show that in an abusive relationship, the pattern of behavior tends to get worse and become more violent.
  • Domestic violence is everyone's problem. Many lives are affected and children learn violence from abusers. No one deserves to be abused. Sometimes it is necessary to take action to protect yourself-the restraining order can be one of those steps.
Q:  If I file a restraining order petition, will my abuser know what I said in the petition?
A:  Yes. Before a hearing can be held, at which time the temporary restraining order can be replaced with an injunction which can be in effect for up to two years, the abuser must be served with a copy of the TRO/injunction petition. The respondent has the right to attend the hearing.
Q:  When I get a restraining order, does that mean I have custody of the kids?
A:  No. If you are seeking a domestic abuse restraining order, the court is prohibited from ordering any custody, physical placement or child support orders. A separate action may need to be filed in Family Court. You may need an attorney to assist with issues about custody/physical placement.
Q:  When I get a TRO/injunction, does it mean my abuser has to stay away from the kids also?
A:  The TRO/injunction only restricts the respondent for making contact with you and does not include the children, unless a separate child abuse TRO/injunction order has been filed on behalf of the child(ren). At the injunction heating, custody or physical placement issues may come up. By law, when issuing a domestic abuse TRO or injunction, the court may not address these issues. It is possible for a court to address issues regarding the children at a harassment injunction hearing because the law does not say the court is prohibited from doing so.
  • It is preferable to arrange any exchange of the child(ren) through the party so that there is no direct contact between the two of you. Many abusers use child exchange contacts as an opportunity to abuse the victim. Third party exchanges in public places help to eliminate this.
Q:  Can I get a restraining order for psychological/emotional abuse?
A:  The laws are extremely specific about the types of abuse a person must have been subjected to in order to obtain an injunction. For a person living with someone who is psychologically or emotionally abusive, the mental abuse can be equally, if not more painful, then physical abuse. The domestic abuse restraining order law says the respondent must have engaged in certain physical abuse or the threat of any behavior. If the emotional abuse includes threats, you may be able to get a domestic abuse restraining order. In addition, the domestic abuse restraining order law says if the person may engage in domestic abuse, you can obtain a restraining order.
  • If your abuser engages in a course of action, which harasses and intimidates and serves no legitimate purpose, you may be able to get a harassment restraining order.
Q:  Will I be able to return to my home immediately after I file a TRO?
A:  Sometimes. You will want to make sure the respondent has been served and you would not be in any danger in going home. You can ask for police assistance in doing this, but often the police cannot immediately get to the task of serving the respondent with the restraining order and placing you in possession of your home. You may need to stay someplace else until the police can help you.
Q:  How can I make sure that the TRO/injunction will be enforced?
A:  You are the best enforcer of this order. Every time the abuser makes contact with you, the police (911) should be called immediately. Not calling the police or only occasionally, gives the abuser confusing messages about the validity of the TRO/injunction. The abuser will begin to believe it is all right to have contact sometimes. Also, sometimes officers do not know about or ignore the provisions of the domestic abuse law, which says the order is not void if the petitioner allows contact.
Q:  If we live or work in the same place, how can I be assured of no contact with my abuser?
A:  At the injunction hearing when you are giving testimony, you will want to include any special requests, such as him/her staying away from you at your place of residence or work. If you happen to see each other at either of these places and your abuser does make contact with you, call the police immediately because it would be a violation of the TRO/injunction.
Q:  How do I determine which county I should file in?
A:  A petitioner can file a domestic abuse TRO or injunction in the county she or he is temporarily residing in OR in the county where the respondent lives OR in the county in the county where the incident occurred. A petitioner can file a harassment TRO or injunction in the county where the petitioner lives OR in the county where the respondent lives OR in the county in which the incident occurred.
Q:  Will I void or violate my restraining order by having contact with the respondent?
A:  The law says the respondent is prohibited from initiating direct contact with the petitioner. If the petitioner of a domestic abuse restraining order allows the respondent admittance into her or his home, the restraining order does not become null and void. The police are to enforce any violations of that order. However, if the petitioner continues to initiate contact, the police may believe that she or he is not serious about the injunction. The police can then arrest the petitioner and the prosecutor can charge the petitioner with aiding and abetting the violation of the restraining order.
Q:  Is it possible to get my restraining order extended?
A:  If the injunction is for less than 4 years, the petitioner can get it extended for up to two years from the date it is first entered. The respondent must be notified once the extension is granted.

Hitler Just Found Out about Tim Glende's Lawsuit Failure.


Lawrence Otto Olson, DMin Fuller Seminary. Rate My Professor

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http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=1049988

DATE
CLASS
RATING
COMMENT

4/24/13
REL3001
Poor Quality
Easiness2
Helpfulness1
Clarity1
Rater Interest2
Grade ReceivedN/A
If you can avoid this professor, do so at all costs. He's rude, inconsiderate, boring, and doesn't know how to teach. Takes your money if you don't bring your book. Expects us to write papers at a level such that  (sic) of an English scholar, which few of us actually are. This is not a grammar course, Olson, its (sic) religion. [This is WELS. We duzn't hafta write English.]

11/10/08
REL3001
Poor Quality
Easiness5
Helpfulness1
Clarity1
Rater Interest1
Grade ReceivedN/A
No interest in topic; boring lectures; unable to teach.

11/7/07
REL1201
Poor Quality
Easiness2
Helpfulness2
Clarity1
Rater Interest3
Grade ReceivedN/A

Led by the Ignorati - Lutherdom Lurches into the Apocalypse

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Sometimes I stop at various Lutheran websites to see if there is any content worth reading. The explanation for the excess of opinion and poverty of thought was published recently in an article about modern writers and Herman Melville.

Tragically, I have lost the link for now. The writer argued that the great authors of the past were well read in literature. Lost is the notion that someone should be immersed in the classics in order to offer something of value to their readers.

Tolkien and Lewis, who were colleagues, studied European literature, published scholarly articles, and wrote recent classics.

In comparison, Melville was not an academic, but he absorbed a vast amount of literature and reflected it in his writing. A free-thinker, Melville made the Bible the backbone of his Moby Dick narrative.

The original Thomas Wolfe (Harvard MA) tried to read every book existing and find unknown treasures. The modern Tom Wolfe earned a PhD at Yale.

Shakespeare (aka the Earl of Oxford) was the best educated individual in Europe and his patron, the Queen, was a close second, able to eviscerate an ambassador in classical Latin ex tempore. Oxford had the largest vocabulary of all English writers and invented many new words we still use (proto-Icha-slang). John Milton was second only to Oxford.

Although no one reads Ichabod, according to Fox Valley WELS,
the center of Wisconsin intellectual life,
this quotation has received over 51,000 views.


Lest anyone be offended - although that is often my melancholy duty - I am not saying there is a direct relationship between academic honors and Lutheran theological acumen. Laity and pastors who understand the Luther quote correctly are schooled by the Holy Spirit and respectful of the Confessions.

But there is no substitute for study, whether it is the layman with his Bible and Book of Concord, or the pastor with his large library and the Internet as a vast supplement.

Modern writers, the lost article said, show no interest in producing anything except their own opinions. They have no grasp of the masterpieces of earlier ages and no interesting in learning from them. Lutherans seem content to indulge in promiscuous scribbling, unhindered by research.

Lutheran websites are so bad that I hardly know where to start:

1. The People's Republic of WELS is finishing an expensive building on its shrinking Martin Luther College campus so they can provide and teach daycare for children from the moment the tikes are separated from their placentas. Remember when we all complained about Red China doing that? Now it is a Lutheran ministry, a career, a vocation.
2. Paul McCain published another triple face-palm, where he showed Pope Gregory in his tiara, and actually credited an enormous copy-and-paste from the Catholic Encyclopedia. That makes McCain a Confessional Lutheran and a scholarly writer. And people wonder why he never finished a graduate degree, not even at a parochial seminary.
3. WELS-ELS-ELCA-LCMS, and the twitching fragments thereof, continue to teach rationalistic Pietistic UOJ while persecuting justification by faith. And they all consider their brand of sectarian Pietism to be orthodox (drumroll), confessional, Biblical (trumpets), Lutheranism. Just as they teach justification without faith, they offer Lutheranism without Luther. Do they quote Luther except in error? Have they read an entire Luther sermon with comprehension?
4. WELS and Missouri are following Rome in converting worship leadership into an all-woman event, which will definitely displace enough men to make the ELCA gambit work in WELS-LCMS.


Strange Definition of Faithful - Engineering the First NIV Debacle, Enlarging and Promoting Fuller's Church Growth Fraud, Covering Up for Murder

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Carl Mischke - He served His Lord, the Lord of the Flies.

"Be faithful even to the point of death, and I will give you a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10)
Rev. Carl Mischke served his Lord in many ways. He was a faithful husband, a good father, and a fine friend to many. He also had the privilege of serving as a pastor, nourishing God's people in congregations in Wisconsin and Minnesota. He is perhaps best known and remembered for his service to the synod, first as president of the Western Wisconsin District, and then, from 1979 until 1993, as president of the synod.
Last week, President Mischke received the crown of life that God had promised to his faithful servant.
President Mischke was the synod president when I was ordained in 1981. He provided leadership during times of both challenge and blessing. Early in his presidency, severe budget shortfalls needed to be addressed, sometimes with difficult and painful reductions in ministry. Not long after that, he oversaw what was perhaps the most ambitious synod-wide offering ever undertaken by WELS (called “Reaching Out”). He served at a time when the synod was facing major issues: the articulation of our synod’s doctrinal position on the roles of men and women; the creation of new districts; major adjustments to the synod’s ministerial education system; the acceptance of a new Bible translation (NIV); and the decision to move forward with the publication of a new hymnal [GJ - still the worst Lutheran hymnal ever].
Through it all, President Mischke remained a pastor, whose love and concern for souls was always evident. With an unbridled optimism rooted in the promises of God, along with a wry sense of humor [?], he faithfully worked to keep the synod faithful to God’s Word and to its God-given mission. For such service we thank his family for their lifelong support, and we thank God for blessing the synod through the faithful service of President and Pastor Carl Mischke.
Serving in Christ,
President Mark Schroeder
***
GJ - WELS beat up on the KJV for years before they forced the NIV on everyone, forcing pastors out for favoring the KJV, just as they forced out critics of AAL.
SP Naumann started Church Growth by endorsing it in TELL. Mischke poured on the gasoline. The Mischke administration was Fuller trained. He expanded it: they owed him.
Tabor and Just murdered their wives. The same sect that will trash and defame anyone for questioning its errors was exceptionally protective of its murderers, just as Schroeder was of its homosexual porn file swapper (Hochmuth).
Tabor moved to dah UP and the letters written against his joining WELS, because he was a known pastoral adulterer, disappeared. Tabor's mistress pulled the trigger, but the police always thought Pastor Tabor aimed the gun, as they say on detective shows. The Milwaukee Police were very sorry they never got Tabor indicted.
Al Just said his wife rolled over on a steak knife, about 30 times, in bed. I have had restless nights, but never fatal ones. Usually the first stab of a remote or dog biscuit will wake me up so I take immediate measures against further injuries. WELS took Al Just's side and bussed a bunch of brain-washed loyalists to Phoenix to defend the ALA high school teacher. He married his children's baby-sitter, who promptly dumped him when she got a view of the real Al Just. WELS still defends Just, which makes sense in a UOJ sect. He was born forgiven. He got out of prison fast and was last seen with a WELS youth group. 
The Fox Valley scandals are not new. They are pure WELS. The same thing was going on under Mischke in Columbus, Ohio, where Tim Glende was trained in Church Growth and the sin of questioning pastoral adultery.
Schroeder is a product of WELS. He has participated in all this, by his conformity, and now leads it - rewarding the evil-doers, punishing the innocent. Mischke would be proud.
PS - Carl Mischke's son told one of my members that I almost destroyed WELS. That is a pretty fragile sect, if publishing the truth can destroy it. The truth is like a lion - do no defend it - just turn it loose.

All the Hitler Videos - Six Epic Dramas So Far

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Hitler Finds Out That Glende's Lawsuit Has Failed


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Hitler Finds Out about Confessional Lutheran Memes on Facebook





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Hitler Discovers the Ichabod Videos



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Hitler Finds Luther's Sermons Posted on Ichabod





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Hitler Wants an Easter Egg Hunt and Live Bunnies



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Hitler Loses the UOJ War

AFP: Australian tycoon to sue Murdoch, NNIV Publisher, claims wife 'Chinese spy'

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Lizard-hands Rupert Murdoch owns your precious NNIV, WELS.
The Babtists will not even sell it in their stores,
but WELS is hotter than George asphalt for this parody of God's Word.


AFP: Australian tycoon to sue Murdoch NNIV Publisher, claims wife 'Chinese spy':

Australian tycoon to sue Murdoch, claims wife 'Chinese spy'
(AFP) – 13 hours ago  
SYDNEY — Flamboyant Australian billionaire Clive Palmer on Thursday said he plans to sue Rupert Murdoch over unflattering allegations and claimed the media mogul's estranged wife is a Chinese spy.
Palmer, best known for building a replica of the Titanic and who is running for election in Australia on Saturday, seethed over a comment piece questioning his wealth and whether he was indeed a university professor and a mining magnate, as he claims.
Murdoch's flagship The Australian ran the story on its front page under the headline "Why we need to worry about the real Mr Palmer", alleging he was "a man with a history of peddling fantasies that often morph into a unique version of 'reality'".
According to the latest polls, the Palmer United Party is on track to win a Senate seat in his home state of Queensland and the daily said it would allow him to "exert his unsubtle influence in Canberra".
"Contrary to the flim-flam and spin, Clive Frederick Palmer is not a professor, not an adviser to the G20, not a mining magnate, not a legal guru and not an advocate for freedom of speech. He's probably not a billionaire," the newspaper said.
The broadsheet is backing conservative opposition leader Tony Abbott to win the election and said it had spent months examining Palmer's track record.
Palmer, who says he has made his money in mining and is also a real estate developer and tourism resort operator, was a long-time supporter of Abbott's Liberal-National coalition. He tore up his membership last year after a bitter, public dispute and set up his own party.
He accused Australian-born Murdoch, now a US citizen, of telling his reporters what to write and said he needed to be brought to account.
"Murdoch will be sued by me today and will be brought to Australia to answer these questions in the Supreme Court," he told the Seven Network.
"It's time this fellow was brought to account, this foreigner who tries to dictate what we do."

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