Sunday, November 17, 2013
UOJ Huberites do not know why faith justifies.
| http://extranos.blogspot.com/2013/11/uoj-huberites-do-not-know-why-faith.html |
Over at so called LutherQuest (really HuberQuest, if you asked me), my dear friend and brother in Christ, Mr. Brett Meyer was busy evangelising its Huberite members. Brett's interaction with these self appointed so called 'orthodox' Lutherans (just like Huber applied the label to himself and called those who disagreed with him as Calvinists) can be found here.
You can see that the Huberites are allergic to the notion of faith causing anything. They are horrified to think that faith in Christ may actually make something happen, like say cause you to be declared righteous in Christ. See the drift I am heading?
In truth, though the BoC signers did not consider faith as meritorious, they did consider it as a cause of Justification under the premise that such a faith came from the HS created through the Means of Grace.
The technical term they used for this is instrumental cause. What the BoC denied faith to was its meritorious cause as if it was inherent to man. They did not deny to faith its instrumental cause. Thus it is of some cause nevertheless.
Pr. Paul Rydecki has a lengthy post on this and you can find it here.
When these Huberites engage Brett, they are like wasps ganging up on him. They often drop names for themselves, with the intent that an outside reader might think they are genuine Lutherans. For example in answering Brett, they start off by claiming "we orthodox Lutherans believe blah blah blah, yada yada yada". You now wonder what "orthodox" means. They think they are when in fact they are devotees of Walther.
Yet, if these people have studied the orthodox Lutherans they claim they have affinity with, they would have shown knowledge as to why faith justifies as the BoC authors said and not malign faith as if each time we mention it, we are promoting faith in faith. So these Huberites are just faking it.
Let them come to this turf, if they have the fortitude to leave the safety of their haven, I dare them and would welcome their dirt and venom.
LPC
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GJ - I am looking forward to the UOJ Hive leaving their confines for open debate with you, Lito. The new nickname is funny. I have favored SpenerQuest because the syphilitic founder of the LCMS, Martin Stephan, learned his UOJ at Halle and taught his lapdog CFW Walther the same.
You and others argue for the Calvinistic origin of UOJ, especially since Hunnius published such a glorious smackdown of Samuel Huber on this very topic.
I fail to see a big gap between Huber's Easter absolution and the Calvinist Woods' explanation of Knapp as double justification. A Calvinist superstar making his reputation by translating Halle's famous old Pietist into English is only part of the story. Add to that - the Woods translation remained a key theology textbook for all mainline Protestant schools in the 19th century - and remains in print today.
A researcher and I have our own copies of Knapp, printed in English before the LiStephanite sex cult landed in New Orleans. We know the Missouri Synod was Germanic from the start, and remained so until WWI made German a bad language to know and use.
Therefore, Knapp was a key theologian in German and English for America. All the American Lutheran groups were Pietistic in origin so the Halle lectures were not suspect but respected.
Lito, you made a good point on Intrepid Lutherans. Anything can follow from an absurd proposition.
Here are some absurd propositions or assumptions that form the foundation of UOJ absurdities:
- Faith is a work, so attributing anything to faith is contrary to grace.
- Anything attributed to Christ is also true for mankind, so his justification absolved mankind.
- "It is finished" means - Everyone is forgiven and saved, regardless of faith, without the Gospel.
- Many means all.
- UOJ has always been the Gospel, but only known and taught in the ELS, WELS, and ELCA.