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| Jay Webber posed with Waldo Werning pal Gene Bunkowske, after earning an STM at the Institute of Lutheran Theology - ELCA. |
R.D. (Ryan11676) Advanced Member Username: Ryan11676 Post Number: 578 Registered: 2-2006 |
From what I can tell, Pr. Webber had two choices: 1. Go to Notre Dame 2. Never admit to studying at a place called ILT He picked option 3 | ||
     Daniel Gorman (Heinrich) Senior Member Username: Heinrich Post Number: 3021 Registered: 11-2004 |
Pr. Preus: "One doesn't make common religious cause with the heterodox. This is unionism. One may avail himself of services and benefits provided by the heterodox as long as this doesn't entail joining them in making a common (heterodox) confession." Does the ILT require a religious confession prior to admission? Does ILT requires its students to be candidates for the ministry? Will a student be denied admission if he or she has publicly condemned the false doctrines of ILT? If no, how can ILT students be labelled unionists? Pr. Preus: "If you were to compare what ILT says about its students to what other academic institutions, such as Yale, Notre Dame, and Marquette say about their students, you will find that an orthodox Lutheran may attend these other institutions without being identified with any sort of confession but cannot attend ILT without being identified with a misleading confession of heterodox faux-Lutherans pawning themselves off as a Bible-believing seminary, graduate school, and "faith community" (whatever that is)." Will an ILT student who publicly condemns the ILT "faith community" in word and in deed be expelled? Will an ILT female student who publicly condemns any female teaching, exercising authority over men, ministry, or attending school without the permission of the husband be expelled? If no, how can male or female ILT students be labelled unionists? | ||
| Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8696 Registered: 5-2001 |
Unionism doesn't require coercion for it to be unionism. We aren't talking about the Prussian Union here. I agree with Ryan. Jay should have passed. I wasn't even looking to criticize him. I had no idea he had studied at ILT and had forgotten it existed. I was going after Eugene Bunkowske, a missions "expert" who replaces theology with sociology and is lionized by the doctrinal indifferentists within Missouri. It was purely by accident that I hit Rev. Webber with my criticism. With the New Year, I resolve to leave Jay alone. As long as he keeps quiet. Pastor Rolf David Preus | ||
| David Jay Webber (Djw) Advanced Member Username: Djw Post Number: 823 Registered: 12-2004 |
"Jay should have passed." Passed on what? Getting an STM degree from ILT? Trying to be helpful to you by explaining what ILT is, when you didn't remember that you already knew what it is? Admitting that I received a degree from ILT when someone else noted that? And actually I did go to Notre Dame, back in the 1980s, during a summer session, when I took two courses in the Graduate School of Theology there. | ||
| Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8697 Registered: 5-2001 |
Jay, please! Don't torture yourself! Nobody's perfect. We don't expect you to be. Everybody's a unionist these days. Well, except for the CLC, of course, but I hear they're going to be declaring fellowship with the W/ELS. Pastor Rolf David Preus | ||
| R.D. (Ryan11676) Advanced Member Username: Ryan11676 Post Number: 580 Registered: 2-2006 |
"And actually I did go to Notre Dame, back in the 1980s, during a summer session, when I took two courses in the Graduate School of Theology there." Oh. | ||
| David Jay Webber (Djw) Advanced Member Username: Djw Post Number: 824 Registered: 12-2004 |
Rolf: So you're not going to answer my question? "With the New Year, I resolve to leave Jay alone. As long as he keeps quiet." Do you think it is to your credit that you make yourself sound like the Donald Trump of Lutheranism, or more precisely, like the Donald Trump of the artificial little world of Luther Quest? | ||
| Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8698 Registered: 5-2001 |
Seriously, Jay, you walked right into an argument you couldn't possibly win. The proof is your descent into insults, something you rarely do, and only when driven to frustration. Had I been in your shoes, I would have passed on the whole conversation. You know the landscape in Missouri as well as I do. You know where Eugene Bunkowske stands theologically, you knew from my first post that he chairs the Board of ILT, and from this knowledge you should have discerned that a man who wishes to be known as a confessional Lutheran pastor will not publicly identify himself with this institution. You chose to do so. I think you have hurt your credibility. I think you know it and that's why you're mad at me and are calling me names. Pastor Rolf David Preus | ||
| Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8699 Registered: 5-2001 |
"And actually I did go to Notre Dame, back in the 1980s, during a summer session, when I took two courses in the Graduate School of Theology there." Oh yeah? Well, I was baptized in HARVARD Square Lutheran Church! Pastor Rolf David Preus | ||
| R.D. (Ryan11676) Advanced Member Username: Ryan11676 Post Number: 581 Registered: 2-2006 |
"Do you think it is to your credit that you make yourself sound like the Donald Trump of Lutheranism" Pr. Webber finally, succinctly displays who he is in this calumnous accusation. Most of the time Pr. Webber cleverly hides behind 20000 words where 121 will do. | ||
| Daniel Gorman (Heinrich) Senior Member Username: Heinrich Post Number: 3022 Registered: 11-2004 |
Pr. Preus: "Unionism doesn't require coercion for it to be unionism." If unionism is church fellowship with the adherents of false doctrine (LCMS Brief Statement, 28), how can there be unionism with ILT if ILT is not a church and its orthodox students are free to condemn ILT's false doctrine? | ||
| Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8700 Registered: 5-2001 |
Unionism is giving the impression of a religious unity that doesn't exist. It doesn't have to involve a church. Pastor Rolf David Preus |
Barb Nelson (Barbnelson) Member Username: Barbnelson Post Number: 78 Registered: 9-2012 |
Does Thrivent count? |
***
GJ - Missouri, WELS, the Little Sect, and ELCA have been in bed with one another for decades and loving it.
Webber's mistake was to identify with the educational system of ELCA, which his beloved Institute of Lutheran Theology represents.
"Confessional" Lutheranism demands that all the fellowship take place covertly, where slandering bloggers cannot break in and steal, where truth cannot rust and corrupt their odious plans.
Following this narrow, meandering path means no more stories in the Thrivent publications about ELCA-WELS-LCMS joint projects in evangelism, worship, leadership, and multi-culturalism. No halleluias about Lutheran World Relief and Lutheran World Federation, or their overlaps with the National Council of Commie Churches and the World Council of Commie Churches.
They may meet and greet at Fuller and Willowcreek, but for pity's sake, not publish stories about their warmth, their oneness, their AA meetings and favorite attorneys.
David Jay Webber (Djw)
Advanced Member
Username: Djw
Post Number: 823
Registered: 12-2004
Rolf: So you're not going to answer my question?
"With the New Year, I resolve to leave Jay alone. As long as he keeps quiet."
Do you think it is to your credit that you make yourself sound like the Donald Trump of Lutheranism, or more precisely, like the Donald Trump of the artificial little world of Luther Quest?
***
GJ - Who said Jay has no sense of humor? He provided an epic laugh for New Year's Day. I appreciate that.
But throwing knives at SpenerQuest is not wise. Gorillas poop in their own nests each day, but they also change nests daily. Where is Jay going to go now to publish his ill-informed, special pleading opinions?
ALPB is a rather intolerant of such showboating, even with its ELCA-centric posts. They spanked Paul McCain quite soundly - and more than once - for doing his Jay impression. "Answer my question!" McCain got caught telling two stories at once and wigging out on other short-tempered authors. But he had already manured his LutherQuest nest by having them post his blog links to plagiarized Roman Catholic Encyclopedia essays. Note - I had to point that out repeatedly before LutherQuest noticed and stopped. No explanations. No apologies. Flushed down the memory hole.
My lack of respect for Matt the Fat Harrison is derived from his having a covert campaign manager - Paul McCain. But the Al Barry wing of Missouri will never admit that McCain and Harrison are just as smitten by ELCA as Kieschnick was. And Missouri continues to fade away, more Growthy than Kieschnick, more do-nothing than Benke.
By the way, Matt Harrison unfriended me, just like Paul McCain. I have never pulled punches about Kieschnick, but we are still FB friends - have been for years. David Scaer also unfriended me. The nasty crowd is fond of its own opinions but they are terribly thin-skinned.
Jay and Rolf think they are the saviors of Lutherdom, but they are the problem. One can only shudder to think what they will do to the remains of their denominations.
Below is the actual Hitler video.