"Orthodox Missourians should mark and avoid ILT." Would you also say this with respect to Notre Dame, Marquette, Yale, and a host of other academic institutions that embody ideological commitments to heterodox theological ideas, but from which conservative Lutherans in various synods regularly receive advanced degrees? Many of these institutions do also offer M.Div. degrees, according to the norms and expectations of their respective ecclesiastical affiliations and associations. Should Orthodox Missourians get advanced academic degrees only from St. Louis and Ft. Wayne? | |||
     Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8672 Registered: 5-2001 |
So ILT is now in the category of Notre Dame, Marquette, and Yale? Before they have received accreditation?  ILT is new. It is established to provide an alternative to existing seminaries. It has deliberately chosen to prepare women to serve as pastors. It is pretending to be an orthodox Lutheran seminary when it is devoted to heteropraxy. Notre Dame, Marquette, and Yale have never made any pretense of being Lutheran. Orthodox Lutherans will seek advanced degrees elsewhere. Pastor Rolf David Preus | ||
| Doug Andersen (Lutherman) Intermediate Member Username: Lutherman Post Number: 384 Registered: 6-2006 |
Isn't Jack Kilcrease also LCMS? http://www.ilt.org/#!faculty/cxlk | ||
| Rev. Robert Fischer (Fischer) Intermediate Member Username: Fischer Post Number: 455 Registered: 12-2004 |
"Isn't Jack Kilcrease also LCMS?" There's no one with that last name listed on the online LCMS directory: LOCATE A WORKER | ||
| Rev. Robert Fischer (Fischer) Intermediate Member Username: Fischer Post Number: 456 Registered: 12-2004 |
His "About Me" portion of his blog (Theologia Crucis) says:
So, as a layperson he may or may not be LCMS but he's not on the LCMS roster. | ||
| Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 6112 Registered: 10-2003 |
On October 2011, on his blog, theologia crucis, Dr. Kilcrease noted: But in a January, 2012, blog he states:
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| Doug Andersen (Lutherman) Intermediate Member Username: Lutherman Post Number: 385 Registered: 6-2006 |
I'm pretty sure he is LCMS... | ||
| Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8673 Registered: 5-2001 |
He is LCMS. He's a good theologian. He's not ordained. [GJ - Rolf means - Kilcrease is UOJ and dumber than a rock - Jack cannot spell or write English.] Pastor Rolf David Preus | ||
| David Jay Webber (Djw) Advanced Member Username: Djw Post Number: 816 Registered: 12-2004 |
"So ILT is now in the category of Notre Dame, Marquette, and Yale?" ILT is newer, less well-established, and is not yet accredited. But you were not talking about any of that when you said that Orthodox Missourians should mark and avoid it, presumably meaning that they should not study under its auspices. Are you saying that the obligation of marking and avoiding - and other applications of the doctrine and practice of church fellowship - are mollified or mitigated by the age or prestige of the heterodox academic institution in question? Would you say that an LCMS pastor looking to get an advanced degree should mark and avoid a newly-established Catholic-affiliated institution, which is in the process of getting its accreditation but has not yet received it, but that he need not mark and avoid Marquette or Notre Dame? | ||
| Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8674 Registered: 5-2001 |
This is what the ILT says in its Mission Statement: "The Institute of Lutheran Theology is a Christian faith community, seminary and graduate school that rigorously equips faithful pastors, teachers and lay people to effectively proclaim the gospel and serve Christ's church throughout the world." Institutional Learning Outcomes ILT students will love, know and apply the Scriptures as the Word of God and the authoritative source and norm of all their teaching. ILT students will interpret the Scriptures as Law and Gospel in light of (as understood in) the Lutheran Confessional writings. ILT students will recognize (saving revelation of God in Jesus Christ to engage the reality of the world in need) both the full revelation of Jesus Christ and the full reality of the world as essential for the theological task. ILT students will exhibit a spirit of openness in theological discussion and interaction. ILT students will confess the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the only hope for the world. Pastor Rolf David Preus | ||
| Rev. Guillaume Williams Sr. (Revhardheaded) Senior Member Username: Revhardheaded Post Number: 5276 Registered: 10-2004 |
Well then, if all that occurs any woman getting an MDiv. will certainly won't be seeking a call as a pastor, right? The Rev. Guillaume J. S. Williams, Sr God justifies the ungodly. Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, | ||
| Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8675 Registered: 5-2001 |
Students of ILT are equipped "to effectively proclaim the gospel and serve Christ's church throughout the world." They "love the Scriptures as the Word of God and the authoritative source and norm of all their teaching," but these authoritative Scriptures do not forbid women to be pastors. It is disingenuous to compare the ILT to such institutions as Notre Dame, Marquette, and Yale. These institutions do not lay claim to a Lutheran identity, do not bind their students to a confessional commitment (that entails the promotion of women's ordination, inasmuch as it prepares women to be pastors), and do not say that their students "will confess the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the only hope for the world." Anybody can get an advanced degree at Marquette, Notre Dame, and Yale, without subscribing to a doctrinal position such as the one required by ILT. You are comparing apples and oranges. I am not familiar with what Marquette, Notre Dame, and Yale say about what its students are being prepared to do, but I don't think it is to proclaim the gospel or to interpret the Scriptures as Law and Gospel in light of the Lutheran Confessions. Pastor Rolf David Preus | ||
| David Jay Webber (Djw) Advanced Member Username: Djw Post Number: 817 Registered: 12-2004 |
So, the academic aspects of a liberal-slanted institution that consciously wants to be a part of the Lutheran tradition are to be avoided more vigorously than the academic aspects of a liberal Protestant institution (e.g. Yale) or of a Roman Catholic institution (e.g. Marquette or Notre Dame)? It almost sounds like you are advocating for a particularly strict version of the WELS doctrine of church fellowship here, applying church fellowship to virtual academic classrooms and not just to altars and pulpits in real congregations. And WELS doesn't even apply its own principles in such a strict way, since they have had professors get Ph.D. degrees at places like Marquette and Brandeis (which is Jewish). | ||
| Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8676 Registered: 5-2001 |
"Rev. Webber, was your ILT graduation in the context of a religious ceremony?"Jay, am I to understand that you received a degree from this institution that prepares its students to make a certain kind of confession to the world? That you have joined with heterodox pro-women's ordination "Lutherans" in confessing together what this institution confesses? If so, were your ecclesiastical supervisors aware of this? Did they approve? Or, did they figure out a way to interpret this in such a way as to acquit you of responsibility for engaging in religious unionism? Pastor Rolf David Preus | ||
| David Jay Webber (Djw) Advanced Member Username: Djw Post Number: 818 Registered: 12-2004 |
I did not subscribe to a belief in women's ordination in order to attend or graduate from ILT. In fact, I explicitly expressed my rejection of women's ordination in my STM thesis. I assume that my thesis supervisor does not agree with me on this, but this had no affect on my academic status or grade. A place like Marquette or Notre Dame no doubt has a mission statement somewhere stating that they strive to maintain or embody the high principles and standards of Catholic higher education, or something like that. But this is not something that students or graduates are compelled to subscribe to. |
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