Classic Ichabod - Stetzer, Warren, and Sweet - Oh My!

Two Babtists at work: Warren (DMin, Fuller) and Stetzer.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS Kitteh Laments":

How does Ichabod feel about W/ELS pastors and congregations using Rick Warren's Forty Days of Purpose, and getting their congregations placed on Saddleback's site as a recommended congregation?

Saddleback, according to their website clearly teaches decision theology and totally denies the Means of Grace.

How could any W/ELS congregation seek the sanction of such a church?

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GJ - WELS Seminary professors have promoted Babtist authors ever since Valleskey, and probably before that. J. P. Meyer, whose toxic Ministers of Christ became the foundation for Kokomo, offered up Decision Theology in his book.

A graduate of The Sausage Factory in the 1980s said his library was all Reformed, due to the books suggested by the faculty. Someone else wrote in to say Jay Adams was all the rage when he was there.

The Wisconsin educational faculties and Love Shack drones have clearly lost their faith in the Word of God. Deformed doctrine, which they love, is shot through with rationalism. Once rationalism is introduced to Biblical doctrine, the Sacraments recede and disappear. Following that, Christ turns into an inspirational oracle, full of insights drawn from Napoleon Hill, Buddha, and Paul Y. Cho.

So what do I think of studying Rick Warren's book? That is worse than feeding poison to one's spouse and children, telling them it is for their own good.

There are some remarkable exceptions, but the typical WELS pastor is hopeless about the Book of Concord and doctrine in general. The best education in theology comes from slugging it out with false teachers. WELS pastors are taught to excuse false doctrine and advocate unionism, with loyalty to the institution more important than the Scriptures and Confessions.

I will compare it with Islamic history. I never took much interest in it until I had to teach it to college students who knew little about any religion or world history. Suddenly, every serious book about Islam and the Byzantine Empire became fascinating. I had a real hunger for those books and read through Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire twice. Questions in class made me want to read more. Take away the need to teach and the desire to study diminished.

That is the genius of unionism. Once unionism is established, no one wants to pursue doctrinal differences and no one will address those distinctions. Curiosity is gone. If anyone dares to whisper, "We are studying false teachers," someone will join Valleskey in hissing, "They are Christians and we can learn from them, too."

In Columbus, talking about false doctrine was denounced as "Christian bashing." The very nature of Christianity, to distinguish between sound and false doctrine, is extinguished by such slogans, and the charge for all pastors (from the Pastoral Epistles) is reduced to nonsense.

KJV 2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

There are more than a few similar passages:

KJV 1 Timothy 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

KJV 1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

KJV 1 Timothy 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

KJV 1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

KJV 1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

KJV 1 Timothy 6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. 2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

KJV 2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

KJV Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. 10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

KJV 2 John 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

KJV Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Stetzer, Warren, and Sweet - Oh My!":

Many in the WELS are astonishingly ignorant and apathetic. Apathy of course leading to vast and sometimes unmeasurable ignorance.

Light of Life Lutheran Church, Covington Wa. under Pastor Jared conducted their own Purpose Driven study when the occultic book first came out. (Pastor Jared was nurtured by the WELS Church Growth fanatics at Sem. With the help of the congregation wrote their own Creeds, studied under Baptist Reggie McNeal and wrote and promoted some horrendous CGM drivel).

The whole Rick Warren occultic, New Age, New World Order drive reminds me of how he is fullfiling the three stages of error.

Speaking to the Islamic Society of North America recently Warren said, "“People don't want to be tolerated, they want to be respected, they want to be listened to. They want to be valued." "I am not interested in interfaith dialogue, I am interested in interfaith projects," Warren said. "Talk is very cheap."

http://www.isna.net/articles/News/Rick-Warren-calls-on-Muslims-and-Christians-to-work-together.aspx

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/warren-convention-muslims-2483889-interfaith-want

When the only money available comes from and through the New Age Roman Catholic religion the faithless in the Lutheran Synods will embrace anything for their share. And the sheeple in the pews will coo their unwitting approval, "All for the love of lost souls!"

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Another person wrote:

This article from a non Lutheran source is one which does a good job of laying out the final extreme result of what Spener might never have even imagined. To quote your series re: pietism, Warren's efforts stretch Bergendoff's motto to the max, "Doctrine divides, but service unites".....Warren's version is at the expense of Christianity itself.

I recommend this (http://www.newswithviews.com) article -- Paul Proctor -- Rick Warren: From Tolerance To Respect. You should check this out at, http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor183.htm

I am all for non unionistic working as a Christian Church for the love of lost souls. But if it's not done in, through and with the pure Word in doctrine and practice then it is not love. Then it harms and does not help. Just as Christ says Luke 17:1-2, "Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." Then it is not for love when what they bring is false teaching.

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Stetzer, Warren, and Sweet - Oh My!":


The WELS on Rick Warren:

http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1518&cuTopic_topicID=941&cuItem_itemID=23728

Richard L. Gurgel, "My copy of The Purpose Driven Life proclaims: “Over Six Million Copies Sold.” Obviously many have read it and benefited. The temptation for us as Lutherans is to ignore such books, since in our justifiable fear of pietism1 we are sometimes timid about encouraging biblical piety."
http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1712&cxDatabase_databaseID=1&id=7090&magazine=Forward%20in%20Christ