I glanced at the recent WELS Documented post on Lutheran doctrine, which illustrates the poverty of WELS understanding about Biblical teaching and Lutheran dogmatics. They chose to put this paragraph in red -
**Reader clarification to the above sentence in bold: Most "reformed" will not point to their decisions. Rather most "reformed" will point to the grace and sovereignty of God. Their error is that they believe Christ did not die for everyone (Calvin's limited atonement) and therefore are predestined to hell. As Lutherans we reject this "limited atonement and double predestination" and say that Christ died for all (Universal Objective Justification) and confess that some are not saved because they reject God's justification, not because the justification was limited in the first place. Comparative theology is always a little messy [GJ -when the ignorant dabble in it]. There are Calvinistic Baptists who don't point to their own work but the grace of God. There are Presbyterians who teach Arminian (decision) theology. For the most part however the distinction might be best to say, "Baptists (Arminians) point to their works.""Reformed (Calvinists) point to the sovereignty of God.""Lutherans point to the universal objectivity of the cross."[GJ - WELSians point to themselves.]
Apparently they felt the need to placate Stephen, who like Jay Webber, must jump into every discussion on the Internet and mark it with his urine, like a dog. To emphasize the Stygian darkness of his thinking, Stephen said in a comment:
"Lutherans (with a few loud exceptions) point to the universal objectivity of the cross."
For whatever that is worth.
Stephen
That is Stephen's failed attempt to cover up the reality of his precious dogma - that the entire world is forgiven without faith in Christ, without the Word of God, without the Gospel in the Means of Grace. One can find the same sanctimony in ELCA, where the ruling clan says, "Some deny marriage equality and climate change," which really means gay marriage and global warming.
I have read and participated in quite a few discussions about justification, and no Lutheran has denied the Atonement. Poor Stephen has to cloak his mischief, like his Father Below, with pious words and references from the Scriptures. But how many wolves began by baring their fangs? Instead, they put on several layers of fleece and speak in the hushed tones of sad but pained parson trying to admonish his errant sheep-friends. The scattering and devouring come later - as Jon Buchholz adroitly illustrated with Pastor Paul Rydecki's congregation.
Joel Dusek responded with a sensible remark and a retreat -
Joel DusekMarch 17, 2015 at 8:35 PM
Yeah, just to be the guy who jumps on the grenade Stephen lobbed....
"Christ died for all" is confessed by all Lutherans, but some would call that Universal Atonement, especially as a direct comparison to Calvinism.
Justification is always and only objective in that Christ is the full and complete object of our justification, without any works, merit, or worthiness in Man.
A person is justified and forgiven by grace through faith. A person is not declared righteous apart from faith.
There are maybe a few hundred who don't use the confusing and unnecessary terminology of UOJ, but there are millions who understand the basic doctrine of justification by grace through faith apart from works.
There, just to get the "other side" out.I do agree with Stephen that we don't need to go down this road here.
"Christ died for all" is confessed by all Lutherans, but some would call that Universal Atonement, especially as a direct comparison to Calvinism.
Justification is always and only objective in that Christ is the full and complete object of our justification, without any works, merit, or worthiness in Man.
A person is justified and forgiven by grace through faith. A person is not declared righteous apart from faith.
There are maybe a few hundred who don't use the confusing and unnecessary terminology of UOJ, but there are millions who understand the basic doctrine of justification by grace through faith apart from works.
There, just to get the "other side" out.I do agree with Stephen that we don't need to go down this road here.
Intrepid Lutherans took the same exit ramp
The Intrepid Lutherans blog argued against justification by faith, too, until Jay Webber unfleeced himself, siding with the Halle Pietist Rambach and rejecting Martin Chemnitz on the same Scriptural passage.
Here is their hymn, to the tune of "I'd Rather Have Jesus," using the greenback font.
- I’d rather have Rambach with silver and gold;
I’d rather be Pietist with riches untold;
I’d rather have Rambach with houses and lands;
I’d rather be led by the Halle U. band.- Refrain:
And to be the king of a vast domain
And be held in sin’s dread sway;
I’d rather have Rambach than anything
The Gospel affords today.
- Refrain:
- I’d rather have Spener with men’s applause;
I’d rather be faithful to UOJ's cause;
I’d rather have Rambach and worldwide fame;
I’d rather be true to Halle U's name. - They're fairer than roses or sauerkraut;
They're sweeter than Thrivent grants without doubt;
They're all that my Old Adam needs;
I’d rather have Rambach and let him lead.
Doug Lindee eviscerated Webber's false doctrine here, and soon, Intrepid Lutherans suspended while Mark Jeske continued his Long March through Lutherdom.
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| Thus Bishop Stephan STD, CFW Walther (his pimp), and Jay Webber. |